Mr Simon Thomas: Today, new leader of the house, for the time being, pro tem, the House of Lords is, of course, on its last realistic opportunity on Report Stage of amending the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, and before them is a very important amendment in the name of a Labour lord, Lord Alli, supporting remaining in the European Economic Area as a negotiating objective of the UK Government. Now, that's...
Mr Simon Thomas: Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary for her statement. There were a number of questions about this statement raised in the Nefyn show yesterday. The statement doesn't contain all of the answers, but at least people can look forward to another summer of consultation on these particular details. Now, as far as Plaid Cymru is concerned, you will be aware that we disagree fundamentally with the...
Mr Simon Thomas: 'significant control over our policies and actions'
Mr Simon Thomas: when, to all intents and purposes, you have given up that control to decisions taken, first of all, by the Government in Westminster, and, secondly, which are led by the Westminster Government, and not through the process that we've been discussing here and that is set out in the climate change committee's report—of collaboration, as members of equal status, between the two Governments....
Mr Simon Thomas: Can I say to David Melding that, if he comes to the Ship Inn in Aberporth, the first plastic-free community in Wales, he will find his condiments served to him in lovely little pots and not in those awful little sachets—
Mr Simon Thomas: It just shows that the public are ahead of us in many ways on this and they want to see some significant changes, and I know the Minister, before she made her statement today, has been to visit the weigh shop in Crickhowell, which is an excellent example—Natural Weigh—of how some businesses are also responding to this. So, this is not about Government telling people what to do; this is...
Mr Simon Thomas: I think, first of all, just to say, though, that the Eunomia report is quite radical in its way. It has lots of refreshing ideas there, it has some astonishing facts and figures. So, beverage containers, drink containers: 40 per cent of the litter on the ground are basically drinks containers. If we could raise our recycling rate, which varies between 65 and 70 per cent around various drinks...
Mr Simon Thomas: Diolch, Llywydd. May I ask the Minister—? I was part of the visit of the Climate Change, Energy and Rural Affairs Committee to Westminster last week, and had the opportunity to ask Michael Gove directly about the new environmental body that the UK Government has promised to establish to maintain EU and other environmental standards if we leave the EU. So, what discussions have you had with...
Mr Simon Thomas: I thank the Minister for what she's explained so far, but the difficulty is, of course, that the Welsh Government has signed away its rights to protect the Welsh environment in the inter-governmental deal. You talk of UK frameworks—[Interruption.] It's not this Assembly, it's not the Welsh Government, it's Michael Gove who will be deciding what EU regulations will be transferred or not in...
Mr Simon Thomas: You don't understand it and you used to be an environment Minister, and you haven't a clue what's being done to Wales. Haven't a clue. So, let me ask the current Minister, rather than the previous one who made such a success of Natural Resources Wales, whether she is comfortable that Michael Gove has this power. What written assurances does she have that the UK Government will not use the EU...
Mr Simon Thomas: I didn't hear any mention of a written assurance. Today is Europe Day. We're still in the European Union and we still have this access to environmental justice while we remain in the European Union. I understand that the Minister and the Welsh Government don't agree with Plaid Cymru or other people's analysis—because it's not just Plaid Cymru saying this—I understand that. But I asked you...
Mr Simon Thomas: There are real lessons for all of Wales in what's happened in Barry. It is frankly astonishing that such a major project in such a built-up area with such potential health effects could have got a go-ahead, or got so far, without an environmental impact assessment being done. I'm grateful for the letter I received from you this morning around this, which, more or less, repeats what you've...
Mr Simon Thomas: You yourself are a public body under the well-being of future generations Act, and, under the duties of this Act, in order to achieve the well-being goals, you have to deal with your functions in a way that promotes sustainable development in all aspects. That’s incorporated into the Act and also in the Wales Act, as amended by the former Act. Now, we may not agree on the impact of the...
Mr Simon Thomas: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Plaid Cymru. And, just for the sake of clarity, although I am Chair of the Finance Committee, I’m speaking today on behalf of Plaid Cymru in the absence of another Plaid Cymru member of the committee, namely Steffan Lewis. I’m pleased to contribute on this issue, and I’m pleased that we are having a...
Mr Simon Thomas: Well, yes, that’s an entirely valid point, and that is why we asked for the devolution of some of these taxes, and that is why Plaid Cymru’s amendment specifically mentions tax rates going hand in hand with economic, environmental and social impacts, because there is more to taxation policy than the rate for specific properties. It’s the impact that you want these taxes to drive....
Mr Simon Thomas: Would the Member give way?
Mr Simon Thomas: I understand the point he’s making, but does he accept that all that's been described here is exactly the same as what happens with the UK Government producing its policy, which then is worked on by the Office for Budget Responsibility in terms of forecasting, and therefore that is the way that policy drives the forecast? That doesn’t say that either Bangor or the OBR is responsible for...
Mr Simon Thomas: I wasn’t going to get completely diverted down that track. I was merely going to point out that he’s asking for a low-tax economy. This tax rate we've talked about in Wales, which we all approved, has no tax for a higher band of commercial properties. So, maybe we'll see the growth there.
Mr Simon Thomas: Will the Member give way?
Mr Simon Thomas: Thank you. He'll be aware that I broadly support this Bill and what the Government is trying to achieve, but I think it is important to put on the record that what he's just quoted to us is modelling, not evidence. We can't use evidence because we haven't got anything like this. Scotland's just begun its journey, but we haven't got that. The modelling he has set out is important, but what...
