Mick Antoniw: The Member makes his point very well. I have two particular concerns. The first one is the undermining of international law, and that is something that any law officer should be concerned with, and I would hope that the other law officers across the UK Governments share those concerns that we have. The other point he makes, of course, is in terms of the destabilising impact. You referred to...
Mick Antoniw: Well, thank you for that question. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the Minister for Economy and the First Minister will utilise every opportunity that there is to ensure that those international interests and UK interests, but in particular the Welsh interests, are at the forefront of any discussions and will use every opportunity to try and bring reason to this situation. You...
Mick Antoniw: Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm sure Members will appreciate how difficult it is to add to the tributes that have been paid to the Queen today. The theme that has run through all the speeches today is one that is familiar to us. It is one we hold high as politicians. It is that of public service. In a world of social media, of instant news, the one theme that resonates is that of public service, and,...
Mick Antoniw: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. A fair and effective justice system and the rule of law are the cornerstones of our parliamentary democracy. As politicians, we make laws, but the adjudication of those laws must always be independent of politics. Today, I want to make a statement about how best we think we can best achieve that fair, effective, independent justice system, and social justice is at...
Mick Antoniw: I also want to reflect the personal efforts of the Minister for Social Justice, who sits with me on the Cabinet sub-committee, and has done so much to deliver strong and vital partnership working over the years. We were particularly pleased by the exceptional partnership working over COVID-19, where collaborative working was a vital component in keeping the courts operational and COVID secure.
Mick Antoniw: But despite all this, we know that our justice system could be so much better. Nobody here will have forgotten the words of Lord Thomas that the people of Wales are being let down by the justice system in its present state. The Thomas commission was, of course, an unprecedented examination of justice in Wales. While there is much we have done in response, there is much more to do. Today we...
Mick Antoniw: Can I thank the Member for the very substantial number of questions and points he's raised? Can I just perhaps start by saying I do hope, of course, that when he's had an opportunity to consider what is a very, very detailed report, there will be an opening of, I believe, a less knee-jerk discussion of some of the broader issues around justice within Wales. But can I thank the Member in...
Mick Antoniw: I thank the Member for, again, the variety of comments. I also didn't know what 'deep dive' meant when I came here, and I managed to bluff it through for a while and eventually found out. Also, when the term 'challenging' is used, it means pretty well impossible. [Laughter.] It reminded me a little bit of when Prince Philip attended one of the Senedd openings, and there was a conversation...
Mick Antoniw: I think one of the starting points, of course, is that—you raised this—it's a very long document, and I agree with that. It could have been, actually, a lot longer, and I hope that the Member has seen the 'Delivering Justice for Wales: Summary and Work Programme' as well, which is a lot shorter. I think what we decided was really important was that we needed to actually present a picture...
Mick Antoniw: Firstly, thank you for those comments. They very much agree with all the sentiments that you have expressed and, of course, the importance of the developments that have been taking place and the engagements that are there, but also how much further we actually have to go. In terms of your last point, in terms of the progress that's being made, what I can say is that I'm engaging on a very...
Mick Antoniw: Well, thank you for a number of those questions. I read with interest the evidence session of Lord Thomas with your committee, the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, because it is something that is of direct interest. I think the one thing that is important is, of course, the all-Wales bodies that were discussed some time back by the Thomas commission. Of course, many of those...
Mick Antoniw: I thank the Member for the comments. The first point you raise is actually a very fundamental one and perhaps, on reflection, I should have made more emphasis of it. It is absolutely vital and essential that we uphold and maintain the independence of Government of the judiciary and of the court system, and any Welsh system and aspects of a Welsh system will uphold those principles. One of the...
Mick Antoniw: Thank you for the question. We set out principles for a devolved justice system in our publication recently, ‘Delivering Justice for Wales’. We will use this to co-produce a vision of how justice can be delivered better, through conversations with those with expertise in the justice system. Considering resources will be an important element of that.
Mick Antoniw: Well, thank you for your supplementary. I certainly agree with you that it was disappointing that, at the Conservative Party conference, a statement was made that there would be no devolution of justice. This was before they'd even had an opportunity to read the document, to read the arguments that are set out within that document. I think that is a very disappointing approach, because it...
Mick Antoniw: Thank you for that question. The enforcement of fisheries legislation is vital for the sustainability of our fisheries and the protection of the marine environment. Although I'm unable to comment on specific, ongoing cases, I confirm we have successfully prosecuted illegal fishers over the past year.
Mick Antoniw: Thank you. It is an important area of work and of Welsh law, and it is of course an area where I oversee the prosecutions in that area. The over-exploitation of our fisheries will lead to unsustainable fisheries, as you've said, and will result in damage to our fisheries and marine environment. So, it's for this reason that the Welsh Government ensures stringent enforcement on any illegal...
Mick Antoniw: Well, the first point I would make is that, of course, there will be a debate—I think two hours have been allocated for this afternoon—where I'm sure all the issues in respect of the special purpose committee's report will be considered. My role and that of Welsh Government is, if the proposals that are in that report are accepted by the Senedd, then to consider those in detail carefully...
Mick Antoniw: I thank you for that question, and I'm sure it's a matter that will be raised again later on this afternoon. Can I just say firstly, though, in terms of the report of the special purpose committee, I don't presume the outcome of the decision this afternoon; it is a matter for the Senedd? And it is a very important matter that whatever decision is taken in respect of proposals for reform is...
Mick Antoniw: What I can tell the Member—and I say in this in two capacities; one as a Government Minister, but also in terms of my law officer responsibilities as Counsel General—is that I will give very detailed consideration, and the Government will, to the recommendations that are put forward, that are passed by the Senedd, and that I will work then to see how robust and viable legislation can be...
Mick Antoniw: Does that mean we have to listen to him again? [Laughter.]
