Rhun ap Iorwerth: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. I'm grateful for the signalling of support from Angela Burns and the group opposite; disappointed, but not surprised, in not gaining the support of Welsh Government and Labour Members. To me, it's clear enough that the statutory guidance that we have now isn't delivering the quality that we want as strongly as we could. It strikes me that if we're not seeking to...
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Yes, move.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Very briefly, just to endorse that. Any legislation needs to have teeth and we need to ensure that the legislation does have force, as Angela Burns has said. We will be supporting this amendment, and we will be arguing that it would be meaningless to pass legislation unless there are implications when someone contravenes that legislation.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Thank you for the opportunity just to say a couple of words. This is also an area where, if we are going to have a Bill that is worthwhile, we have to look for ways to have an impact through it. We know from experience that a lack of data is holding us back, in terms of our ability to increase quality within our health and care services. We support the amendment. We know that data, and the...
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Thank you very much. I do urge you to support this amendment. Should we be able to expect, or should we hope to have, the clinical staff, the best possible doctors, nurses and so on, within the NHS? I think we should, and there are systems in place to ensure that standards are maintained. Should we expect and hope to have the best possible managers within the NHS? Yes, I would argue that we...
Rhun ap Iorwerth: I'll certainly clarify in this way: I acknowledge that the NHS is a complex machine within which there are many layers of management. The shame, in a way, is that we are here at Stage 3, having proposed this at Stage 2, and having put this on the table at a point where Welsh Government should, and could, have engaged with it in a way, using the might of the Government machine, they would have...
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Diolch yn fawr iawn. Well, the Minister very feistily explains why he won't be supporting this amendment aimed at increasing or improving standards within the NHS in Wales in a pretty fundamental way. I do believe that Government did suggest there that they would be moving their own model of regulating managers within the NHS. I don't know if the Minister wants to confirm that, if that was...
Rhun ap Iorwerth: In all seriousness, we will be supporting these amendments. This is our insurance policy after failing to have our amendments passed in group 2. I reminded you earlier that I was concerned that there were a number of standards that I'd like to see on the face of the Bill that are not there, and that that is in the context of guidance that is five years old by now. If the guidelines are going...
Rhun ap Iorwerth: In this group, amendments 73, 74 and our amendments—they specify that breaches of the duty of candour should be reported to Welsh Ministers, who, in turn, would have a requirement to report these breaches to the National Assembly, either via an annual report, or, when the Minister deems them serious, then immediately. I would say that that level of seriousness would be defined through...
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Formally.