Vaughan Gething: The elements of quality set out in the Bill are non-exhaustive and deliberately broad, as I said in the debate on the first group. It is intended that quality will align with the internationally recognised definition of quality. And, again, that is intentional, given the broad-ranging functions of NHS bodies, and I do not want to risk diluting that approach or making it cross-purposes. And...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. Following considerations at Stage 2, I have had constructive discussions with opposition Members and I am pleased that we've been able to reach a shared position with Angela Burns on this. By specifying in statutory guidance the evidence to be used and the way such evidence has been assessed, that will require NHS bodies to report openly and transparently on the actions...
Vaughan Gething: I will clearly expect all NHS bodies to demonstrate how they comply with the new quality duty in an open and transparent way. The new annual report will be a key vehicle for evidencing this. The amendments that we have just passed, 16, 17 and 18, will set that requirement out very clearly. This, along with other mechanisms, such as integrated medium-term plans, provides that range of...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. There are already many systems in place to collect, analyse and publish data across our national health service. Much of this is captured on a Wales and England basis, if not a UK-wide basis, such as the range of national clinical audits. It is what is the done with that data that is, of course, key. Amendments 16, 17 and 18 dealt with the requirement for Welsh Ministers...
Vaughan Gething: As Rhun ap Iorwerth implied, I do not support the amendment that now appears in his name. But I support the aim of ensuring that health service managers are competent and capable and that those who fail cannot just move on to another job elsewhere in the system. I do not agree that amending this Bill to create a new corporate body and a complex and bureaucratic system of registration is the...
Vaughan Gething: I don't support the amendments, as I believe they're unnecessary. The existing legislation requires the standards to be kept under review. That means they are already subject to regular review, and updated standards are published. There is clear evidence to demonstrate that that has happened. The first set of standards, under the Health and Social Care (Community Health and Standards) Act...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. I have listened to the rationale for laying the amendments tabled in this group, both at Stage 2 and again today. In relation to amendment 39, which, for reasons that I'll explain again, I don't agree with, the purpose and the effect is quite clear: any failure by an NHS body to comply with the duty of candour procedure regulations, or with the provisions is sections 5 to...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you. I'll speak first to the Government amendments that I move, and then turn to consider the other amendments that have been listed in this group. The Bill as introduced did not include provisions for the chief executive of the citizen voice body to be a board member. That was questioned during the scrutiny process by the board of CHCs, and I'm grateful to them for raising the...
Vaughan Gething: I thank Members for their comments and I recognise that we may rehearse a number of points in the next groups of amendments. I want to return directly to the points made about the independence or otherwise of the citizen voice body, as opposed to the current community health councils. Hearing the phrase, 'however you spin it, you can't have a body having its independence questioned', well,...
Vaughan Gething: We're talking here about what happens when people argue about the appointments process at the start, and then the reality of it. Every one of those people who've held those commissioner roles have not felt constrained in their independence.
Vaughan Gething: There's a fairly straightforward disagreement about whether the Assembly or, indeed, the Government should be the ultimate appointer of these people, but I don't accept that the practice of the way that we have run public appointments through Wales in the last 20 years, or indeed a range of posts, actually holds water for the argument that this would somehow undermine the independence of...
Vaughan Gething: I think this is quite an extraordinary point. You say that there's a conflict of interest for new arrangements and an entirely separate body, but you're prepared to fight for a current position where those people are employees of the national health service. That, to me, is not a position that holds any kind of logical argument to it at all. I recognise that we don't agree in terms of the...
Vaughan Gething: Yes.
Vaughan Gething: Formally.
Vaughan Gething: Moved.
Vaughan Gething: Move.
Vaughan Gething: Formally.
Vaughan Gething: Moved.
Vaughan Gething: Formally.
Vaughan Gething: The amendment places a duty on Welsh Ministers to make regulations to require the citizen voice body to hold indemnity cover for the benefit of staff and volunteers. I agree that the citizen voice body should decide and plan how to organise its indemnity cover, as should any public body. However, a provision of the type that is suggested is not, in my view, appropriate, and I cannot therefore...
