Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. Unfortunately, I don't support the amendment in the name of Angela Burns. I've been clear on the importance that I attach to establishing a citizen voice body that represents the interests of people across both health and social services. One of the fundamental aims of the Bill is to establish a new national body to represent the citizen voice, with a renewed profile and...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. I'm happy to move the only amendment in this group. Members will be aware that, as introduced, the Bill did not require the Auditor General for Wales to come to an opinion on the regularity of the citizen voice body's accounts. Amendment 13 requires the auditor general to come to that opinion on whether the expenditure to which the accounts relate has been incurred...
Vaughan Gething: Move.
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. I have listened again to the debate on these amendments, as, indeed, this has been a significant part of the passage of both the White Paper and, indeed, through Stages 1 and 2. Now, I do, though, recognise that we're broadly at the same starting point, which is how we ensure that the citizen voice body represents the interests of people throughout Wales and is accessible...
Vaughan Gething: An arm's-length corporate body, able to enter into its own contracts, its own arrangements, its own leases, is significantly more independent than a body that is hosted by Powys Teaching Health Board. All of the community health councils' staff at present are employees of the national health service through Powys health board. Now, to move those people to an independent, arm's-length...
Vaughan Gething: If I can give a specific example—thank you for taking the intervention—on the challenges that the current arrangements provide: when, with the previous chief executive of the community health councils movement, there was a challenge about his conduct, community health councils themselves couldn't take action because he was an employee of the national health service. Powys had to agree a...
Vaughan Gething: Formally.
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. All of the amendments in this group relate to representations being made by the citizen voice body and the response that should be provided to them, but they, of course, have different permutations. And I do want to make clear again that, despite the language being used, refusing to agree to amendments 42 or 77 are not examples or evidence of bad faith, or a deliberate...
Vaughan Gething: Can I just refer to amendment 42(6)? 'As soon as reasonably practicable, the recipient of the representation must publish the response prepared under subsection (4) on their website'. That leaves no room for any discretion whatsoever; the word 'must' in this drafting is very clear and unambiguous.
Vaughan Gething: Move.
Vaughan Gething: I'm sorry to have to disappoint Angela Burns again, but as Members will know, there were identical amendments on joint complaints tabled at Stage 2, as Angela Burns has indicated. I still don't believe the Bill would be a suitable vehicle to bring these changes forward. Responses to the White Paper consultation and subsequent consideration have indicated further engagement in the area is...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. Members will be aware that section 18 of the Bill places a duty on NHS bodies and local authorities to supply the citizen voice body with such information as it reasonably requests for the purpose of carrying out its functions. The purpose of this amendment is to place a duty upon NHS bodies and local authorities to provide the citizen voice body with a written response...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. Following the Stage 2 debate, I met with opposition health spokespeople to discuss a number of issues, one of which, of course, was the question of access to premises, and we did have a constructive discussion. Officials have spoken to stakeholders who represent providers of health and social care, nurse directors of health boards and trusts, the Welsh Local Government...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you. I do recognise this is an area where there are differences of view, but we are genuinely trying to accommodate people on all sides in recognising some of the complexities that exist. And I recognise that Angela Burns has redrafted the amendment she tabled at Stage 2 because of the concerns about access to people's homes, but I still come back to the drafting that is still in here...
Vaughan Gething: I think that's very positive, because it does show we're genuinely talking to and listening with people on all sides in the Chamber and outside to try to get this right, and to have a series of real examples about how the code should be applied. And, again, to reiterate my point, the code will start with the presumption that access will be agreed. This is not about unreasonably trying to...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. I agree with the board of community health councils in its view that NHS bodies and local authorities could do much to support the new citizen voice body in reaching as many people as possible so that they can share their views and experience of the care and support they receive. I've considered the views of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee and wider...
Vaughan Gething: Yes. I thank Members for their broad support, across a range of people, for the Government amendment. I think it's worth while pointing out that the reason why we think the current Government amendment complements is that it goes to the other duties that already exist, for example section 18, the duty on NHS bodies and local authorities to provide information that it reasonably requests; the...
Vaughan Gething: I do understand the sentiment behind the amendment, but I still don't believe it's necessary and so won't be supporting it. I certainly don't disagree that any public body or, indeed, any responsible employer, would provide information, advice and training to its staff and any volunteers that perform functions on its behalf. That's an inherent part of being able to deliver on its functions...
Vaughan Gething: Thank you, Llywydd. The purpose of this amendment is to amend the Welsh Language Standards (No. 7) Regulations 2018 to refer to a 'citizen voice body' instead of 'community health councils' and 'the board of community health councils'. This will ensure that the new body will come under the regulations on establishment and that the Welsh Language Commissioner can issue a draft compliance...
Vaughan Gething: It is worth perhaps reflecting on the fact that questions for myself have been moved to the first item of Assembly business tomorrow afternoon. That is to ensure that not only can I answer questions to Members, but also I do, then, have time to attend the COBRA call that is taking place tomorrow afternoon with other Governments across the United Kingdom. I'm sure we'll have ample opportunity...
