Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Strengthening the Welsh constitution has been the main aim and pleasure in my life, and the opportunity, be that unexpected, to continue with that work by presiding over the fifth Assembly is one that I believe to be crucial, because this is the Assembly that will move this Senedd from being a relatively inferior Senedd within the UK to being an equal...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Leanne Wood.
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: I thank the First Minister for his statement. I had hoped, First Minister, that this would be the final piece of legislation that the UK, in the Parliament that I occasionally visit, would pass on the Welsh constitution, but it appears to me that we haven’t reached that point as of yet. So, in asking my question to you, and in asking for your support in your response, I’m going to set a...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: When will the First Minister next meet with the Secretary of State for Wales?
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Thank you very much, Llywydd. It’s a very difficult task to respond or even summarise a debate such as this, but I am grateful to all Members for us having a reasonable and relatively rational debate in the contributions made. We started with Mark Isherwood referring to the agricultural arguments and the kinds of arguments that I have heard a number of times in the area that I represent,...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Yes, I give way. Iawn, fe gymeraf ymyriad.
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: The only thing I will say to you, David: without those people, what would happen to the fresh meat industry in Wales? And the NHS?
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Dawn Bowden emphasised the basic issue here of workers’ rights and standards, and I was very pleased to hear that argument. Then we came to Mark Reckless, who gave us edited highlights from his biography. I’ve always regarded autobiography as a work of fiction, so we’ll leave it there. Jenny Rathbone emphasised the importance of the environmental contribution, in terms of air quality,...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: 8. When will the First Minister meet with the First Ministers of the other UK devolved nations? OAQ(5)0069(FM)[W]
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: I thank the First Minister for that response. Did he have any discussion with them on the referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union, and particularly on the question as to what assurances other First Ministers within the UK, as well as you, have been given on what will happen if funding were to disappear from Wales and the other devolved nations because of a decision to...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: I’m very grateful to the First Minister. Perhaps he can help me with a constitutional difficulty that I have with the motion before us today, namely that this Assembly is asking, once again, for Westminster to legislate, as I understand the motion, on constitutional issues that should belong to us in this place.
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: I’m sorry to intervene, because I haven’t followed all of the debate—I’m sure it’s out of order for me even to stand up—but why do we keep referring to borders? There hasn’t been a border between England and Wales for 1,500 years, to my knowledge.
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Thank you very much, Deputy Llywydd. May I thank the Minister for his statement and apologise that I wasn’t present to welcome him personally to Penllyn just last week? I also declare that it’s a wonderful day for me when my own party’s policies and his party’s policies come together, particularly on issues related to the internal governance of Wales, because the question I want to...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: I thank the Minister for her statement and particularly thank her for understanding the possibilities that we have of cleaning up the north-west and north Clwyd as a significant step forward. Would she agree that it’s important that this ambition should lead the regional board in that area, with all the scientific support that is necessary? One further question: at the end of the process,...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: ‘I don’t see this settlement as being any more permanent than any of the others…. Until we reach the point of having some sort of jurisdiction for Wales, then I don’t think that the process of devolution will have been concluded. But, again, I do feel that the way in which these matters are to be reserved are dealt with in this particular Bill is something that can only be a temporary...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: 7. When did the First Minister meet with the Secretary of State for Wales to discuss the Wales Bill? OAQ(5)0240(FM)[W]
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Were you any the wiser, First Minister, following your discussions? Because I and the other member of the House of Lords sitting opposite have been in three sittings already discussing the Wales Bill, and have received some positive responses from the Minister, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth, but it’s clear to me that the Wales Office is nothing more than a bolt-on to the Ministry of Justice,...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: In a way that was unexpected to all of us, I would have thought, this Assembly has come of age, constitutionally, legally, and in all other ways, on this question facing us today. I believe that it’s very significant that the Welsh Counsel General here today has spoken more clearly than I heard any official of the UK Government speaking on this particular issue in Westminster yesterday. I...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: I won’t keep you for too long, Llywydd. I just wanted to ask the Minister whether he agrees with me that heritage doesn’t belong to the past, but it belongs to the future. We are talking here about institutions that mainly came into being—. That’s why they have royal charters—that was the only way to create national institutions during that pre-devolution period. We are talking...
Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas: Without trying to tempt the Counsel General to go into political spheres, would he agree with me that one of the major weaknesses in the debates that we’ve been involved with, particularly in the second House, on the Wales Bill, is the unwillingness of law officials and UK Government Ministers to reinforce and to standardise the Welsh constitution more clearly, for the people of Wales and...
