Group 10: Annual socially responsible procurement reports (Amendments 7, 8, 9, 44, 46)

– in the Senedd at 6:45 pm on 7 March 2023.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:45, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

We move, therefore, to group 10, and the tenth group of amendments relates to annual socially responsible procurement reports. Before calling on Peredur Owen Griffiths to speak, I need to draw Members' attention to the fact that amendment 44 in the name of Joel James and amendment 46 in the name of Jane Dodds are identical; both were tabled on the same day. Whilst admissible at the point of tabling, it would not be admissible to consider and vote on an identical proposal twice. Therefore, I have deselected amendment 46, in line with my powers under Standing Order 26.34. Amendment 7 is the lead amendment in this group. Peredur Owen Griffiths to move amendment 7. 

(Translated)

Amendment 7 (Peredur Owen Griffiths) moved.

Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru 6:46, 7 March 2023

Diolch yn fawr. We consider the annual socially responsible procurement reports to be a key mechanism to ensure that the Bill is having the desired effect in improving public procurement, both at an individual public body level, and also at a strategic national level, as the information reported on in these reports is collated and analysed by the Welsh Ministers, as per their duty under section 42 to produce an annual report on procurement nationally.

As I said in Stage 2, the provisions included in this section of the Bill, as introduced, to set out what the public authority had done did not go far enough and the real proof would be in the pudding—measuring the impact of those actions through the outcomes being achieved on the ground. I welcomed the Minister’s recognition of this in her amendment at Stage 2, but also noted a danger of a two-tier system being created in this section, where some things 'must' be reported on, and others 'may' be reported on.

The amendment rectifies that position and will ensure that we have, for the first time, a consistent standard baseline of data on the impacts of public procurement on the well-being of Wales in the widest sense. Whilst the details will be set out in regulations, the information will have to be included in each body’s annual report. And at the least, we expect that to contain information that will enable public bodies to be held to account on how their procurement activities are benefiting the economy of the area, including through the award of contracts to small and medium-sized enterprises; taking environmental considerations into account; and taking other social considerations into account.

This will, for instance, enable the contribution of the body’s procurement activities and the value added to the local and Welsh economy to be measured, for accountability and also a baseline for future development. Hopefully, then, there can be no excuse or practical impediment to prevent setting targets in the future, once the first collection exercise has been done as a result of this duty. This will also enable greater alignment between the objectives of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and this piece of legislation, as well as ensuring that the impact of the Bill can be more effectively monitored.

Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru 6:48, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

There was no reference to the Welsh language on the face of the Bill, as introduced. I spoke during the committee stage on this legislation about how important it is for the Welsh language to be embedded at the heart of the public procurement framework in Wales, as one of the key social and public policy objectives that we expect this area to contribute towards. It's already Government policy as a result of the co-operation agreement to increase the number of Welsh language spaces, including workplaces, to give one example of how this legislation could drive forward our aims and aspirations in terms of the Welsh language in practice through procurement.

We talked in Stage 2 about the construction sector and the excellent practices pursued by companies such as Jones Bros, Ruthin, and Alun Griffiths contractors, and the fact that the majority of the administration of the Caernarfon bypass has been undertaken in Welsh, and has provided valuable job opportunities through the medium of Welsh, and Griffiths has developed hard hats with 'Working Welsh/Iaith Gwaith' badges to facilitate the use of Welsh in the workplace. But this good practice needs to be aligned throughout our procurement activities. If this amendment is accepted, it will allow public bodies to be compelled to report on how exactly they ensure in practical terms that their procurement activities contribute to the promotion and facilitation of the use of the Welsh language. I would be grateful if the Minister can give an assurance on the record today that her officials will work closely with Efa Gruffydd Jones, the Welsh Language Commissioner, when drafting any regulations, statutory and non-statutory guidance, whether on this section specifically or in general, so that we have a framework that is fit for purpose. Thank you very much.

Photo of Joel James Joel James Conservative 6:50, 7 March 2023

I'm conscious that this is the last opportunity that I'll have to speak, and I would just like to put on record my thanks to the group office, the clerking team and my staff for all the help they've given me, not only through Stage 3 amendments, but the whole Bill process. They've been invaluable.

I'm conscious that we've not seen eye to eye on this Bill; I nonetheless want to pay tribute to the Deputy Minister and to thank her for at least making this a rather enjoyable experience for me. 

So, I'd like to speak to my amendment 44, which will help ensure that procuring locally does not come at the expense of globally responsible procurement. This Bill sets out to encourage public bodies to procure goods and services as locally as possible in order to allow public procurement funds to be used to help local economies and local communities. However, encouraging this may have the unintended consequence of public bodies reducing the amount of fair-trade goods that they have purchased from the global south, and thus will no longer support these global communities that are trying to become self-sustainable. This amendment seeks to ensure that public bodies recognise and reduce the impact that they will have when purchasing locally instead of purchasing fair-trade products. Thank you. 

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 6:51, 7 March 2023

Go on—let him have that one. [Laughter.]

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

It wasn't actually his amendment, Janet, but there we go. [Laughter.] Jenny Rathbone. No. That's fine.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The Deputy Minister to contribute. Hannah Blythyn.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 6:52, 7 March 2023

Diolch. Further to comments I made in relation to group 8, I can confirm that the Government will support amendments 7 and 8. Members may recall that an amendment designed to strengthen this section was made in Stage 2 committee. If carried, amendments 7 and 8 today will further strengthen this provision by requiring the Welsh Government to make regulations under section 39. The amendments will also require that those regulations be explicit about the information contracting authorities must provide in order that Welsh Ministers can assess how a contracting authority’s procurement is contributing to the achievement of the well-being goals. So, we will be supporting these two amendments.

Turning to amendment 9, I can confirm that the Government accepts this amendment. We agree that contracting authorities should be able to demonstrate how procurement practices are safeguarding and promoting the use of the Welsh language, and we will support amendment 9 on that basis.

As we have repeatedly assured all stakeholders as this Bill has progressed, the statutory guidance will be developed in a truly collaborative manner, consulting with all who are interested in increasing the well-being outcomes from our more than £7 billion of procurement spend each year. So, I'm more than happy to commit to engaging closely with the Welsh Language Commissioner as part of that broad partnership work to ensure our commitment to the Welsh language is fulfilled.

However, we are unable to support, and can't support, amendment 44, because 'globally responsible' is already covered by sections 39(3)(a) and (b), which require a contracting authority to include information about how it is contributing to all of the well-being goals in its procurement reports. Diolch. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:53, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

Peredur Owen Griffiths to reply.

Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru

I'm grateful to the Government for supporting these amendments, which will only serve to strengthen the positive outcomes of this Bill and send a clear message out about its intention. I'm particularly happy that the Government has moved on the matter of the Welsh language. Its previous position was incongruous with its policy towards the language and its goal of creating conditions for millions of speakers by 2050—a million speakers; millions would be great, but a million to start with by 2050. [Laughter.] [Interruption.] Come on. This change of heart is merely in keeping with the efforts to protect and boost our precious language. I'm glad also, in the development of the statutory guidance, that the Minister is willing to and happy to work with the commissioner, and I'm sure the commissioner will be very happy to work with the Minister. 

We will be supporting Joel James's amendment, and Jane's amendment, which are one and the same, as we do think that it is—and we've had debates in this place—around the global responsibility of procurement. So, we will be supporting that amendment. Diolch yn fawr. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:55, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 7 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 7. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 40, 15 abstentions and one against. Therefore, amendment 7 is agreed. [Interruption.]

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

The record will show.

(Translated)

Amendment 7: For: 40, Against: 1, Abstain: 15

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 4333 Amendment 7

Aye: 40 MSs

No: 1 MS

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 4 MSs

Abstained: 15 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Abstained: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:56, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

Peredur Owen Griffiths, amendment 8. Is it moved?

(Translated)

Amendment 8 (Peredur Owen Griffiths) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

It is. Is there any objection to amendment 8? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection to amendment 8. We will therefore move to a vote on the amendment. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 41, no abstentions and 15 against. Therefore, amendment 8 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 8: For: 41, Against: 15, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been agreed

Division number 4334 Amendment 8

Aye: 41 MSs

No: 15 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

No: A-Z by last name

Absent: 4 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:56, 7 March 2023

(Translated)

Amendment 9, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

(Translated)

Amendment 9 (Peredur Owen Griffiths) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

It's moved. Any objection to amendment 9? No objections to amendment 9. And therefore it is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

Joel James, is it being moved?

(Translated)

Amendment 44 (Joel James) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Yes. Is there any objection to amendment 44? [Objection.] There is. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 44. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 28, no abstentions, and 28 against, and therefore I will use my casting vote in the negative. So, the final result of that vote is 28 in favour, no abstentions, 29 against. So, amendment 44 is not agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment 44: For: 28, Against: 28, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

Division number 4335 Amendment 44

Aye: 28 MSs

No: 28 MSs

Aye: A-Z by last name

Absent: 4 MSs

Absent: A-Z by last name

(Translated)

Amendment 46 not selected.