3. 3. Statement: The Wales Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 2:33 pm on 8 June 2016.

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Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 2:33, 8 June 2016

Llywydd, I would like to make a statement about the UK Government’s Wales Bill, which was introduced in Parliament yesterday.

I hardly need say that this Bill is of fundamental importance to Wales, and Members will be aware that it has had a tortuous history since the previous incarnation was published for pre-legislative scrutiny last October. In November, the Welsh Government published a detailed critique, which concluded that the Bill was not fit for purpose, and would introduce restrictions on the Assembly’s competence inconsistent with the 2011 referendum mandate. That analysis was endorsed by expert stakeholders and by the Assembly’s Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee in March. The Welsh Affairs Committee recommended the Bill should be paused to enable substantial further work before introduction, and the Bill published yesterday is the product of that work.

I have to say, Llywydd, that the new Bill is far from perfect, and there are many important details still to work out, but it’s better than the previous draft. It has benefited from discussion with Welsh Government officials, and those discussions are continuing. I would have preferred a later introduction to allow more progress to be made, but the Secretary of State has assured me that discussions with the Welsh Government on detail will continue, and that there should be scope for further substantive reconsideration of the Bill provisions during its passage.

On that basis, I’m able to give this draft a cautious welcome. I recognise that progress has been made, but further amendment will be needed on a number of key issues. I have made that clear to the Secretary of State, and will be writing to him to set out these views in detail. But, can I outline briefly the positive progress that’s been made, and summarise the most important outstanding issues?

The Bill contains provisions for new powers in such fields as elections, energy consenting, transport and marine licensing. We have always welcomed these, and the drafting has been improved. The constitutional provisions, dealing with the permanence of the Assembly and the Sewel convention are substantively unchanged and are broadly welcome, although the Sewel provisions, as is the case also in Scotland, unfortunately don’t cover all the circumstances where Assembly consent is required. Removal of the outdated restrictions on the Assembly’s internal arrangements is also, of course, welcome.

One of the biggest problems with the earlier draft Bill arose from the provisions recasting the conferred-powers model into a reserved-powers model. The UK Government had argued that protecting the joint jurisdiction of England and Wales within the new model required the imposition of new restrictions on the Assembly’s legislative competence. This was an unacceptable and unworkable row-back of existing competence, which greatly increased complexity and uncertainty in the Assembly’s powers. The new Bill is a significant improvement, and the Assembly will have extensive powers to modify the private and criminal law in relation to matters within its competence. These provisions still need considerable further detailed work to achieve some degree of consistency, coherence and overall workability, but they do represent positive progress.

At the same time, however, in extending the Assembly’s competence into new areas of law, the Bill will bring even more sharply into focus the tension within the single jurisdiction that was evident in the original draft. In our supplementary pre-legislative scrutiny evidence, we argued for a distinct jurisdiction as a solution to this tension, and we published an alternative draft Bill, which provided a more sustainable, longer-term solution. The revised Bill makes crystal clear that, over time, the divergence of the law applying in Wales and the law applying in England will continue to grow, to the point where a distinct or separate Welsh jurisdiction is inevitable. I’ll continue to argue that this issue must be addressed in this Bill if it is to be at all credible as a long-term settlement for Wales. Now, if the UK Government does not see its way clear in this Bill to a complete resolution, it should put in place, at least, arrangements that pave the way for a longer-term solution.

The new Bill also represents some improvement in respect of UK Government Ministers’ consents required for Assembly Bills. The reduction in the need for such consents is welcome, but there is, again, considerable complexity, and further work is needed before it will be possible to say whether the overall outcome is acceptable and workable. There has also been progress in reducing the number and scope of reservations, but we’ll be pressing for amendments to remove several that remain, including, for example, the community infrastructure levy and alcohol licensing.

I will mention briefly the other most important outstanding issues with the Bill. It removes the referendum provisions in the Wales Act 2014, with the effect that the Treasury would be able, by Order, to commence income tax devolution without the consent of the Assembly or Welsh Ministers. I have made it clear that I will not be able to support income tax devolution without a clear overall fiscal framework agreed by both Governments, and that this agreement will be a precondition of supporting a legislative consent motion for the Bill. I think that is entirely reasonable, where there is mutual agreement.

The Bill’s provisions on water are unacceptable as they stand—they don’t deliver on the St David’s Day commitments. Teachers’ pay remains a reservation in the Bill, due to continuing discussions on the funding transfer needed to support devolution, though there is agreement on devolution in principle. It will not surprise Members when I say that the estimate that we place on the cost of taking teachers’ pay and conditions is somewhat different to that that the UK Government is prepared to offer. And all those issues must be addressed.

To conclude, I do welcome the progress that has been made so far, but significant further improvement is needed to make the Bill fit for purpose and fit for the Assembly to consider giving its consent. Where we can reach agreement, the UK Government will bring forward amendments. There will inevitably continue to be some fundamental disagreements, such as on the devolution of policing—good enough for Scotland, Northern Ireland, London and Manchester, not apparently for Wales—where the Welsh Government will continue to press and to encourage Parliamentary debate.

Llywydd, during the last Assembly, I did seek to take forward discussion of the devolution settlement as far as possible through cross-party consensus. I’ll continue to take that approach and will be sharing my letter to the Secretary of State, responding to the Bill with the party leaders here and at Westminster. There is much work to do in a tight timescale and I hope we can work together, across parties, to get the best outcome for Wales.