Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 2:50 pm on 8 June 2016.
Thank you, First Minister, for your statement. I’d also like to commend the Secretary of State for the way he has engaged in the process before the publication of this Bill, in meeting all the parties in this Chamber and many from outside of the Chamber and up in Westminster, to bring forward a Bill that is a dramatic difference, shall we say, from the draft Bill that was debated and discussed in this Chamber some months ago. I do think that we have a Bill that will dramatically increase the responsibilities of this Assembly and, ultimately, to the benefit of the function of public services here in Wales, but, indeed, the economy and, above all, the reputation of this Assembly. I do think we do need to grasp this opportunity to make sure that this Bill does proceed in a timely manner because some of these provisions do need to be arriving here sooner rather than later.
I hear what the First Minister said about policing, but would he agree that, on policing, that shouldn’t act as a roadblock to find a consensus for this Bill to actually proceed and actually deliver on some of other issues that clearly would benefit, such as the elections, such as energy consents, marine consents, et cetera, which are vitally required to increase the capacity of this place to legislate in favour of the people of Wales?
I do also hear what the First Minister says about teachers’ pay, and I do have a disagreement with him on that particular issue. I’ve sat on many committees and also in hustings where previous Labour Ministers have talked at length about how they would not want teachers’ pay. In fact, Leighton Andrews, formerly of this parish, argued vehemently against the former education spokesperson, Nerys Evans, in the 2011 election as to why there should be no devolution of teachers’ pay to this institution, because it is a step towards regional pay, it is, then. I’d be really grateful to understand why the First Minister is so keen to see the devolution of teachers’ pay. Would he not say that that would be a stepping stone to creating a regional pay structure that could be stretched into the other areas of public service? Again, I would hope very much that the First Minister would not see this as another obstacle that could be put in place to stop the Bill progressing in a timely manner through the House of Commons and House of Lords.
I agree entirely with the fiscal framework that the First Minister has touched on in his statement. That does need to be put in place to make sure that the transition on income tax powers for any future Welsh Government does need to be comprehensive, does need to give reassurance and, above all, does need to make sure that Wales is not left out of pocket. I will work with him on that to make sure that that does not happen, and, any discussions that he would like to have over that and any support, I think that is a vital bit of spadework where all leaders in this Chamber can seek to achieve consensus and, ultimately, go to Treasury and to Government Ministers in a unified way, because actually, what we found in the fourth Assembly, when this Chamber speaks with one voice, we actually achieve a hell of a lot of more. I think the improvement on this Bill was achieved greatly by the unified voice that came from this Assembly when we had the debate here and the whole Assembly voted on the merits, or not, as the case may be, of the original draft Bill that was before this Chamber for discussion.
I do note the move on the distinct jurisdiction. I do disagree with the leader of Plaid Cymru when she says that all legal expertise wants a separate jurisdiction. I might have misheard, but I thought you did say ‘all’. There is a body of opinion that does want a separate jurisdiction, there is a body of opinion that wants the status quo, and there is a body of opinion that is quite happy to move to this ground of distinct jurisdiction while the body of Welsh law evolves and develops. I do think we’ve moved significantly in the right direction, and I do believe that that move should be warmly welcomed, and it is progress that can be further enhanced as the body of Welsh law grows in the coming years.
But, I do, as I say, want to see this Wales Bill commence its progress through the House of Commons and House of Lords so that we can, ultimately, get the increased responsibilities that will enable the Government and the legislature to actually get on with the job of doing what the people of Wales elect us to do, which is seek the improvements in communities and lives across the whole of Wales. I do very much hope that we can work to build a speedy process for the implementation of the Wales Bill that was launched yesterday.