Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:21 pm on 8 June 2016.
Thank you, First Minister. I think some of the issues in the Wales Bill, which we’re all discussing and we seem to think are very important, to the majority of the people of Wales are not really issues that they’re concerned about. The one big issue that almost everybody is going to be concerned about, and I myself have a fear about, is the tax-raising powers and the possibility of those without a referendum. In 2011, when we had the referendum on further powers, we were told then that is was not about more AMs and it was not about tax-raising powers: it was a tidying-up exercise. We now find ourselves being told that the two Governments—the Government here and the Government in Westminster—have a cosy consensus between them and that they’ve decided that we don’t really need to put this before the people of Wales. Well, Leanne Wood herself has just mentioned that the will of the people of Wales must be adhered to, and Andrew R.T. Davies talked about the fact that here, this house, must speak with one voice. This house does not speak with one voice. There are seven UKIP AMs and we do not agree—[Interruption.] We do not agree that there should be tax-raising powers without a referendum. Next year, there is an election in every single household in Wales, for the councils. In 2017, every council election is up for grabs. If you want to save money, if you want to be democratic and you want to give the people of Wales a say on this crucial matter, why not have a referendum at the exact same time and allow the people of Wales to have their say? Do we want this Government here to have power over their purses and wallets? I personally don’t.