The next item is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs on building on our recycling success for a circular economy. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Lesley Griffiths.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I want to draw the attention of the Senedd to a real success story for Wales and how we can build on this success for the future. Wales has achieved the highest municipal recycling rate in the United Kingdom and, if it were to report separately, the fourth highest rate in Europe. I would like to pay tribute to my predecessor, Carl Sargeant, for his contribution towards Wales’s achievements in recycling and resource efficiency and also acknowledge the efforts of Welsh local authorities and the Welsh public in this achievement.

Wales’s municipal recycling rate reached 59 per cent for the 12 months to the end of December 2015 and 58 per cent in quarter 3 of the full year 2015-16. This is up 5 per cent on the same quarter in 2014-15. In the new compositional analysis of municipal waste, published by the Waste and Resources Action Programme today, it is identified that around a quarter of what is in the black bag waste—residual waste—is food waste, and another quarter is dry recyclables. If we could capture even half of this material, we could comfortably achieve our target of 70 per cent recycling of municipal waste. This demonstrates a great advance in sustainable waste management in Wales. However, its real significance is that waste and resource efficiency offers a gateway into the circular economy.

A circular economy is one where materials can be productively used again and again, creating added value and associated multiple benefits. These benefits can help us deliver on many of our well-being goals under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, especially a prosperous Wales, a resilient Wales and a globally responsible Wales.

A recent study by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation and WRAP identified potential economic benefits of more than £2 billion each year to the Welsh economy. A further study by WRAP and the Green Alliance predicts that up to 30,000 new jobs can be created in Wales through development of a circular economy.

Thousands of Welsh workers are employed in supply chain companies, large and small, involved in collection, transportation, reprocessing and remanufacture of materials throughout Wales. Steel, aluminium, paper, cardboard, glass, plastics, textiles and electronic goods can all be recycled, creating jobs and adding value through the circular economy.

We need to make sure as large a quantity of materials as possible is reused within the Welsh circular economy. These materials need to be of high quality to be attractive to local reprocessing companies and command the best prices. In this way, local authorities and householders will be contributing to better environmental and economic outcomes as well as higher recycling.

It is important for Welsh householders to know where the materials collected from them are recycled. A recent report into the end destinations of materials collected for recycling by Welsh local authorities showed less than half, by weight, is recycled in Wales. There is enormous potential to boost the Welsh economy and the number of jobs by reprocessing more of these materials here in Wales.

Therefore, it is my intention as Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs to drive forward policies towards delivering a circular economy in Wales. This will be one of my key priorities and aligns with our work in response to the circular economy package being proposed by the European Commission.

I will explore all necessary mechanisms, including legislation, to require a high content of recycled materials in products procured by the Welsh public sector. I will also explore the use of extended producer responsibility to ensure that producers and retailers share more evenly the burdens of managing waste from households. I will work with Welsh local authorities and the private sector to explore how we achieve these goals. The Welsh Government has recently published the results of a review of the collections blueprint, which confirms the validity of the approach. A revised edition of the blueprint is currently in preparation, and we shall consult on this later this year.

We need to consider the potential benefits of more consistent waste collection services to deliver higher quality feedstock at a lower cost of collection. The success that we have seen is largely due to the clarity and direction of the national waste strategy ‘Towards Zero Waste’ and its supporting sector plans. The municipal sector plan and its collections blueprint provide guidance to local authorities about how they can improve financial, environmental and economic outcomes. I want to continue to work closely with local authorities, the Welsh Local Government Association and other stakeholders in the sector, including business and the third sector, to ensure progress towards our targets is maintained and we develop and deliver effective policies to achieve our wider objectives in this area.

We are making steady progress towards our overall goal of becoming a zero-waste nation by 2050. We stated in our manifesto that we want a carbon-neutral Welsh Government by 2020. The goals are ambitious but achievable and mean, as a nation, we will need to up our game on the broader waste management agenda, not just recycling, to further cut emissions and promote resource efficiency all along the supply chain.

The Welsh Government is committed to a review of the 2010 waste strategy ‘Towards Zero Waste’. We published an interim progress report last year and are currently preparing discussion papers to kick off the debate about what the new strategy should embrace. I shall be bringing these forward to the Senedd and for wider public consultation by the end of this year.

Wales has a proud record on municipal recycling, and the targets that are in place will ensure Wales continues to progress towards having the highest municipal recycling rate in Europe. This will bring extra economic activity, more jobs and better carbon reductions. We must maintain progress and ensure we take every opportunity to contribute towards the goals set out in the well-being of future generations Act. The next few years are going to be very exciting in the field of municipal recycling and resource efficiency, and I’m pleased to have the opportunity to set out this agenda to you today. Thank you.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Thank you very much. I call Simon Thomas.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I welcome the new Secretary to her role and yourself to the Deputy Presiding Officer’s role? I think it’s the first time you’ve been in the Chair, as well. [Assembly Members: ‘Hear, hear.’]

I’d like to thank the Secretary for her statement. I’d like to say there was an awful lot of rubbish in it, but I mean that in the best possible, positive way. [Laughter.] I’ll stick with the bad jokes after that one.

The one thing I did think about the way we describe this very positive story for Wales, however, is perhaps we need to be a little more proactive in the way we do it. I think ‘circular economy’ doesn’t do it on the doorstep for me. I think when you talk about a zero-waste strategy, people understand that, and I think when you talk about the jobs that can come from reusing our core materials that we use in our economy, I think people understand that. ‘Circular economy’ leaves me cold, so I hope the Government can come up with more exciting ways of describing what is a good news story for the Government and for Wales as a nation.

The questions I’d like to ask the Secretary at this stage are about how we are going to make further progress towards that target. Now, your statement today did focus on recycling, and I understand why, but, within a zero-waste strategy, of course, reduction and reuse are also key methods of achieving that, and, particularly in the low-carbon or zero-carbon aims that you have as a Government, reduction and reuse must come before even recycling. So, I’d like to hear a little more about what your thoughts are on how you’re going to use those tools to further your aims and, in that context, are you giving particular focus and consideration to, for example, a deposit-return scheme for plastic bottles in Wales? I took part in a beach clean fairly recently in Llansteffan; it was very noticeable that just about every second piece of item we picked up from the beach was a top of a plastic drink bottle—a sports cap. I think a way that we can encourage the reuse of such materials in Wales is something that I’d like to see this Government consider, and certainly, Plaid Cymru will be advocating. Are there things, as we’re looking towards the summer, and a lot of festivals—I’ve been to one or two already; looking forward to more—and agricultural shows and events and so forth, where we can build in reuse and recycling into these? Because there’s an awful lot of food waste, and an awful lot of plastic waste that’s created by our outdoor events. They are very important for our communities, but it would be good to have the zero-waste strategy put in the centre of those public events as well.

You said in the statement—it was quite interesting, I think—that it is important that people in Wales understand what’s happening to their waste. I do think that’s important; I get a lot of myths on the doorstep, quite literally, where people say that they put out the compost and, in fact, the compost is just incinerated somewhere; it doesn’t actually end up in a compost. I think we need to understand and explain this. Can you say, therefore, how you’re going to increase the amount of actual recycling that takes place here in Wales, the jobs here in Wales and the economy here in Wales? You mentioned in the statement that it’s about half of our recycling that actually takes place in our country. I think we should increase that, and I’d like the Government to have a specific target within its waste strategy to increase that.

The second element I’d like to ask you about is your view, or the Government’s view, on incineration. What place, if any, does incineration of waste have within the zero-waste strategy? My mind is that it should have no strategic role at all, and that you should look for a moratorium on incineration of waste. There are certain types of waste, of course, that have to be incinerated, like surgical waste and hospital waste, but as a waste reduction strategy, and waste recycling strategy, incineration should have no part. I think we’ve made some false steps in the past by encouraging local and regional solutions to waste strategy that haven’t addressed our national priorities. I hope that the lessons of the past have been learnt and you will bear down on any local authority or consortium that starts to use incineration as a way of dealing with this extremely important area, because, as your statement sets out, recycling and reusing these materials does in fact mean a better deal for our communities and our economy.

The final point I wanted to raise with you is one around commercial recycling. I think we’re all still very frustrated that, as we do our best in our own homes to compost, whether it’s in the garden or in the bins, whether we recycle and put cardboard to one side, put bottles to one side or put plastic to one side, when we try and purchase goods—and sometimes we do have to have new goods—we find them over-packaged and over-delivered in that way. It seems, really, that there is a limited stepping up to the plate by the commercial sector here. What elements of our success is down to success within the commercial sector, and what are you doing to increase the reduction, first of all, and very importantly, within the commercial sector, of unnecessary packaging and waste? I think it’s a bit unfair, in many cases, to put a burden on domestic ratepayers and domestic households, when we see so clearly that many companies, operating of course outside Wales as well, are not taking account of our message here of reduction and reuse.

It is a good success story that Wales is the fourth highest rate in Europe. It’s an excellent success story that we recycle more than the rest of the United Kingdom. We once did better on renewable energy as well and we fell behind. I hope we don’t fall behind in this matter, and I hope that in your response today, and in your work as a new Secretary, you will actually achieve your aim of a zero-waste economy in Wales.

I’d like to thank Simon Thomas for his comments and I look forward to him shadowing me; I hope his jokes improve over the coming months. I actually agree with you about the circular economy, because when the title of the statement was put in front of me, I baulked a bit. But I think you’re right; we need something that people very much understand and can grasp hold of. We have made a huge amount of progress, and, as you say, it is a good news story. To be where we are in the UK and in Europe is a real success story. Clearly, we need to do more to get over that 59 per cent that we have to reach our target. And I think there is more that we can do, but it is about ensuring that the public come with us in relation to that.

You asked what more we can do, because, obviously, we’ve probably come to a bit of a plateau really, and there is going to have to be further action to go forward. You asked specifically about a deposit recovery scheme, and I know that has been looked at. You may be aware that currently the Scottish Government are doing a great deal of work around this, and we are sort of actively working with the Scottish Government—there’s no point duplicating the work that they’re doing—and we’re waiting for some advice from them. Officials are working very closely together. My early understanding of having such a deposit recovery scheme is that it would be incredibly complicated to introduce. But, certainly, I am looking to have that advice, and I know that, again, my officials have been working with stakeholders on whether we should do that.

I thought it was very interesting what you said about cleaning up on a beach, which you are to be commended for, and it was the plastic tops. I remember when I was first elected, back in 2007, not doing a beach scheme—we don’t have any beaches in Wrexham—but, you know, going on a litter pick, where it was carrier bags. And I think the fact now that we don’t see many carrier bags littering is because of the legislation that this place brought forward to reduce the use of those. I think the point you made also about agricultural shows and festivals is very good. Plastic can’t be reused practically. So, I think we need to look at what we can do, going forward.

I did mention about the people of Wales knowing what happened to the products that are recycled, and I think there’s a conversation that I need to have with my colleague, the Minister for economy and infrastructure, around this. And, certainly, we need to encourage businesses. In fact, in Ken Skates’s own constituency—I’ve made a visit myself—there is a new company that recycles coat hangers, and there are literally hundreds of thousands of coat hangers going through this. So I think it’s something that we could do, to encourage new businesses like that to come to Wales.

I think, in relation to incineration, prevention is obviously the key, but, again, it’s very early days in my portfolio. I need to have a look at that, but, certainly, I think we need to continue to focus on where we have been with that.

You asked about commercial waste, and I think you’re quite right—if we’re encouraging households to do it, we should be encouraging businesses. They recognise that recycling saves them money. But I think we also need to look at extending producer responsibility, and making sure that they design products that will last longer, that they think about what happens to the products when they get to end of life, how they can then be recycled or repaired, and thinking about the infrastructure that needs to be in place there.

Can I thank the Secretary for her statement—such a positive statement? She referred to the 30,000 potential jobs in this sector. As she may know, Neath Port Talbot, in my area, has secured the second-highest number of jobs in reprocessing under WRAP Cymru’s EU-funded ARID programme, which highlights the practical reality of the job creation potential here. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the types of jobs that may be created, and the skill mix required, in order to be able to take full advantage of the circular economy in all its guises, be it waste collection, recycling, but also remanufacture, reuse and repair?

Well, I haven’t undertaken that piece of work in the first month of the portfolio. But I think you raise a very important point, and there is that prospect of bringing more jobs in. I mentioned how we could be looking at encouraging businesses in the way I’ve mentioned about Ken Skates’s constituency having the coat hanger one.

I think it’s really important that we recognise that we’ve made a big decision here in Wales to be a recycling nation, and we need to ensure that when we encourage businesses to come here, we show that one of the reasons that we want to be that recycling nation is to have that economic resilience. So, be assured that, going forward, I will be having those conversations.

Thank you. I call the Conservative spokesperson, David Melding.

Deputy Presiding Officer, can I add my congratulations to your office? I’m not sure you’d want to recycle anything the last chap did, but I know you will have your own personality in the role, and I do hope you’ll soon forget the odd occasion when we clashed when I sat in that Chair, especially should I heckle rather inadvertently occasionally, having heard some of the contributions of the frontbench.

It is also slightly unnerving, when I have to make my first contribution as a spokesperson, in an area I’ve never shadowed before, to do it in an area of rather high achievement for the Government. Can I place on record my congratulations to the Government, and also to the new what we now must call Cabinet Secretary? I do recall that’s what the term was in the first Assembly; so, even that’s been recycled. But I do hope that you will enjoy your role and that you will achieve many of the things that you have set out to achieve in these early days for your portfolio.

I think the Welsh Government has shown leadership in this area, and it would be churlish not to acknowledge that. We’re now in a position where we could see further ambition. This pretty much relates to the circular economy, which I think takes us a bit more into the commercial side of things, having noted the pretty good record in terms of municipal waste, even at a European level, let alone on a UK scale. So, I do think we need to concentrate now on how we’re going to use the resources of small and medium-sized enterprises, in particular, who I think need to be at the heart of a strategy that effectively recycles and retains more of the recycled material within Wales. Because, in your admirably candid statement, you do acknowledge that over half of the material currently recycled actually then leaves Wales. So, if we look at that as a resource, which is what I think we need to do, rather than the problem to be exported, then I think it is crucial that we get SMEs more fully involved. To do that, we need not to engulf them in regulation, but we need to give them the tools to see the opportunities and to develop their skills and to see where there can be commercial advantage.

So, in that case, I just have one particular thing, really, to follow up, and that is: whilst you’re saying that you’re looking at the way that can be done and that you are drawing up plans for that, I would like to know how ERDF, our European moneys, might be used together with EU Horizon funding, because it seems to me, in improving the skills and key infrastructure in the economy, then those European programmes could be very, very promising and an area where we could really have competitive advantage. In so much of what happens in the Welsh economy, we’re trying to emulate best practice elsewhere, but I suppose the real ambition that you are expressing this afternoon is that we can lead not only at a UK level but at a European one as well. If we achieve that ambition and I’m still in post, then I look forward to be able to acknowledge that and congratulate further success as it occurs.

Thank you, David Melding, for your kind words. I only realised just yesterday—because, obviously, I’ve only been here since 2007—that ‘Cabinet Secretary’ was used. So, again, that was a much better joke than Simon Thomas’s. [Laughter.] You are quite right, and it’s very good that you recognise the high achievement of the recycling rates municipally. That’s why I was so candid about the commercial sector. What I want to do is build on the industrial and commercial sector plan that we have within our schemes to ensure that we do work with businesses. You will have heard me say before about the extended producer responsibility, but I think it’s about ensuring that we work with businesses to make sure that their design of products and packaging enables them then to reduce waste, to increase that reuse, to increase their recyclability and increase the recycled content.

It’s also about sustainable management of residual waste as well, and we need to be having those conversations with them. You mentioned European funding. Again, I’m due to meet my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government to have those discussions around how we can use European funding—yet another aspect about why we should vote to remain, I believe, next week, to make sure that that European funding is still there, going forward.

I think we’ve already offered a great deal of support to local government, for instance. I know that local government were quite cynical about these targets that we set for them in relation to municipal waste. I’m sure that when I do start to have those discussions with businesses I might meet with the same sort of level. So, it’s about not taking success for granted. It’s about all working very hard together to make sure that we improve the services and we are able to reach our target in due course.

I welcome the Cabinet Secretary to her post and welcome her statement and her commitment to a circular economy. Obviously, she has concentrated on recycling in this statement, and I note that she raises the potential for further recycling from the analysis of the content of the black bags, which shows there is much more there that could be recycled. However, I do think that we should, in conjunction with continuing to pursue what can be recycled, be looking at reuse, and we should be looking at prevention of waste. I know in the previous Assembly we did have quite a bit of discussion here about a deposit-return bottle scheme—I think William Powell raised it at every debate we had—and I note that in your reply to Simon Thomas you said that you are discussing this with the Scottish Minister and seeing what their experiences are in Scotland. Obviously, you would be analysing it closely, but it would be a very direct way of reusing and would prevent an awful lot of the waste that there actually is, when analysis is made of what causes litter, for example. So, I am very pleased that that is being considered.

The other point I wanted to raise was the issue of garden waste, because I am always very concerned, particularly in the country, when you see garden waste being put out for collection by local authorities, and I wondered how much emphasis is able to be put on composting and trying to prevent this, which really seems to me quite an unnecessary thing for local authorities to be doing. We should be concentrating on encouraging garden waste to be recycled within the garden itself. I understand it in a town—that is, you can’t do that in a town with people in small gardens or yards or things like that, maybe, but in the country, it just seems to me not a good thing to be doing.

I thank the Member for her questions. You’re right—you heard me say to Simon Thomas that we’ve been very closely working with the Scottish Government, and certainly officials are watching what they do. They’re going to come forward with some advice that I’ll consider certainly before the end of the year, but it is a very complicated process to bring forward a deposit-return scheme from scratch. I think it would be a major undertaking and we’d have to work out whether the costs and benefits were balanced. I think I mentioned that plastic is quite hard to recycle. If you think about it, most drinks bottles now, the glass ones, have been replaced by plastic, and that cannot be used practically.

In relation to composting, I think most local authorities carried out campaigns to promote home composting to householders. If you think about it, I think most people would produce too much garden waste to then manage their own compost bins. So, I think people do really value the service that local authorities provide in relation to taking away surplus garden waste, and if that compost then can benefit other gardeners, you can see the process there. I think what I would really want to avoid is people burning their garden waste, because that can often give off very toxic smoke.

Minister, can I ask you with regard to recycling rates in Wales? One of the best-performing local authorities was Conwy, and it has managed to achieve its success in recycling with a current recycling regime with a trolley box that is collected on a weekly basis, with different recyclates that are collected at the kerbside and separated at the kerbside, and then a black bin collection on a fortnightly basis. Now, you may be aware that the local authority is planning to move to a three-week cycle across the local authority area, and is about to conduct a pilot also, which it intends to commence in the summer months, of a four-weekly collection cycle.

I’m very concerned about that pilot and the impact that it might have on encouraging positive recycling behaviour amongst the local community. There’s a lot of concern that that might lead to environmental problems from those who don’t engage in recycling in the way that you and I would want them to, and there’s no provision within the proposals to deal with pet waste, which of course can be particularly unpleasant if left festering in black bins for a long time. So, I just wonder, Minister, what guidance you might be able to issue, as the Welsh Government, to ensure that these things are catered for properly, so that if there is a shift to a four-weekly general refuse collection service, that doesn’t have an adverse impact on the wider environment, upon local communities, and indeed on the visitor economy, particularly in a place like Conwy where visitors are essential in giving that particular area an economic boost?

I thank Darren Millar for his question. I was aware Conwy are going to pilot to trial four-weekly collections. I think they’re starting at the end of next month. We, as a Welsh Government, don’t have a policy for monthly collection of non-recyclable rubbish. It really is a matter for local authorities to decide the frequency of their waste collections and what’s best for their community and their local populations. I have no plans to enforce any specific collection frequency arrangements on them.

In relation to pet waste, that’s not something that has come across my desk in these early days. But I think you do raise a very important point about pet waste and I’m happy to have a look at that and write to the Member.

I have two more speakers and we’ve got less than a minute to get through them. Can I ask both speakers, then, just for questions on this occasion, please? I’ve got Jenny Rathbone next.

Thank you very much, and welcome, Minister. I’d just like to pay tribute to—you’ve said that an amount of food waste is still appearing in black recycling, which is obviously a major health issue, as well as loved by the gulls—the work that Love Food Hate Waste is doing to divert food from having to go to land waste into being used productively by organisations. I think it’s really important.

I just want to ask you about the perverse incentives around weight-based recycling—No. 1—and also what consideration you might give to how we could put levies on the plastic bottles or the can lids that have been mentioned earlier by others as a way of ensuring that we’re not sorting out one problem and creating another. How can we get the polluter to pay—i.e. those who do tip their cans onto the beach? How do we prevent that happening in the first place by maybe having bottles for drinks that have to be returnable as an alternative to that?

Thank you, Jenny Rathbone. You will have heard me say to previous Members my views on deposit-return schemes, in relation to your last question. In relation to throwing out by weight, a briefing I read was embracing what other European countries have done. I think Austria and Italy and parts of Belgium were areas where they’d had a pay-as-you-throw tax. I actually think that’s quite controversial. Going forward, we would have to consider future models of how we fund local authorities to deliver the high-quality services that we’ve seen. But, certainly, I wouldn’t think pay-as-you-throw would be something that I would want to see here in Wales.

I absolutely agree that we know that probably 50 per cent of rubbish thrown into a black bin could be recycled. It’s about ensuring that we find a way of encouraging people to look at what they’re throwing away—to have a look around their house and see what they can throw away, and to make sure they throw the right things away in the right places at the right time. It may be that we need to have a further campaign, for instance, to raise public awareness. I think that’s been very successful previously. But these are all things that I will have to consider to make sure that we do reach that 70 per cent target.

Okay, thank you. Finally, Nathan Gill.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, the aims of the Welsh Government are admirable, but perhaps unrealistic: 70 per cent recycling by 2025 and 100 per cent by 2050. In order to get to the 100 per cent mark, you really must bring the householders of Wales with you. You are working in response to the EU framework directive, which only requires a 65 per cent recycling rate by 2030. This is a classic case of the gold-plating of EU legislation, which Labour complains so much about in Westminster, and, all of a sudden, here we are, we’re getting it in Wales.

Now, there’s two main ways to get people to recycle in Wales: we can use the carrot or we can use the stick. I’m afraid that it appears that we are going down the stick route all too often. Many of my constituents in Conwy and, soon to be, Anglesey are being asked to not only sort their own rubbish on behalf of the council but also to make do with a four-weekly bin collection. Now, those of you who suffer from the system that we have on Anglesey know that, when the wind blows, literally the recycled rubbish ends up all the way down the street, and many of the inhabitants of the estate where I live, when it’s windy, don’t even bother putting out the recycled rubbish, because it just ends up everywhere. Is it not draconian to expect people with large families to put their rubbish into a bin that’s exactly the same size as that of somebody who only has one person in their household? Of course, Cardiff is now possibly facing the four-weekly scourge as well. Cabinet Secretary, what carrots can you offer to our residents regarding recycling, as opposed to this being a thorn in the collective side of the Welsh people? And what’s more, why is it not possible for us to—?

That’s two questions and we’re out of time. I’ve been very lenient.

You’ve been extremely lenient, and thank you ever so much.

Yes, well, don’t push it any further. [Laughter.]Cabinet Secretary.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank Nathan Gill for his question, although I think it was a little bit sour. It was a shame that that was the last question to end what I think has been a really positive statement. You know, the statistics don’t back up what you’re saying. I don’t think we’ve had to use carrots and sticks. I really think people have engaged with this. I do accept that we’ve reached, with 58 or 59 per cent, a bit of a plateau and, to get to that 70 per cent, we are going to have to think about different things, about how we get that 50 per cent out of the residual waste into the recycling boxes. But, you know, every local authority is engaging in the way that you referred to in Anglesey and Conwy, not just those two local authorities. Unfortunately, we have 22 local authorities, and sometimes—I’m not saying we have 22 examples of how we do it, but, again, let’s look at best practice, let’s make sure that we get that best practice around Wales to ensure that we do reach those targets. They are ambitious, but I do think they are achievable and, as I mentioned in a previous answer, we chose to have those targets; we chose for Wales to be a high recycling nation. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.