Unfortunately, I have only a minute to reply, so I can’t—I’ll be available afterwards to continue the discussion. But, I’m amazed at the other Members in this house who take a different view from me of the European Union. Their defeatism and their pessimism about the spirit and character of the Welsh people—that, somehow or other, they’re incapable of making their way in the world. As for the so-called experts that we’re supposed to rely on: are these the same experts who recommended that we joined the euro, the same experts who failed to predict the banking crisis and, in many cases, were responsible for it? Great people, aren’t they? I’m sure we’re all very happy to have their advice at this time.

Fundamentally, what this debate is about—it’s between democracy and bureaucracy. The people who are taking the decisions that affect our daily lives: are you going to elect them or not? If they take the wrong decisions, how do you get rid of them? That was the question that Tony Benn always used to ask when he met somebody with power: ‘Where did you get it from? How are you going to exercise it and if you make a mistake, how are we going to get rid of you?’ How do you get rid of the Commissioners in Brussels if they make a different set of decisions from the ones that they’re taking now that you actually happen to like? If you don’t like the decisions they’re taking then what you do? Then you’re stuck. With elected politicians, at least, you can, every so often, vote to get rid of them, and that’s what we’re going to do tomorrow: put the power back into the hands of the people.