4. 4. Plaid Cymru Debate: The Wales Bill and the Electoral System

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:23 pm on 29 June 2016.

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Photo of Mr Simon Thomas Mr Simon Thomas Plaid Cymru 3:23, 29 June 2016

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I’m pleased we had this debate. It was short, but sweet, and I think Sian Gwenllian set out extremely well in a very concise but well-targeted and focused opening speech the reason why we brought forward this debate.

Of course, when we did table this debate, we didn’t know that the Assembly itself would be voting today using a kind of proportional representation, because you’ve had a second-preference vote to choose your committee Chairs today, and you’ve accepted that you don’t get first-past-the-post all the time for everything that goes on. So I think that’s a small chink in the arguments against first-past-the-post, and a small step forward for more proportional representation. If we have it for our committee Chairs, then surely we should have it to elect our Members. [Interruption.] Some of the committee Chairs, yes—quite. I was open for an election; I don’t mind.

I just want to put one thing to bed, because there’s been a little bit of mischief making by the First Minister, ably assisted by Dafydd Elis-Thomas, I’m afraid to say, on the precise wording of this motion. The motion is very clear:

‘Believes that the Wales Bill should make provision to enable the National Assembly for Wales to introduce the single transferable vote’.

We as Plaid Cymru support STV, so of course we will want to advocate STV. But there’s nothing in the motion that says that we can only introduce STV under the provisions of the Wales Bill. We want the Wales Bill to make provision to enable us to introduce STV. We could introduce another system—of course we could—and therefore there isn’t actually anything between our motion and the Government amendment, apart from the Government not accepting STV, because that’s the reality of it: the Labour Party doesn’t accept STV.

It would be much more honest if the Government amendment just said that. At least the Conservatives spokesperson was very honest and said, ‘We don’t know what we want at the moment’. I think that might have something to do with the fact that we have a Conservative Government that could call a referendum on leaving the EU having been voted in with a majority of 12 on 37 per cent of the vote. And that cannot continue. [Interruption.] That cannot continue. [Interruption.] I agree it’s in the manifesto, of course it is, but you should never have the majority. You should not have a majority in Westminster on 37 per cent of the vote. There should be 82 UKIP MPs—there should be 82 UKIP MPs. And if we’d had a Westminster that had reflected UKIP’s voice for the last 10 years, we may not have had a referendum. We may have had more subtle ways of exploring the great depths and the well of unhappiness that people have with the electoral system, that wouldn’t have come then to a binary choice, saying, ‘If you’re unhappy with politics, vote out’, but would have been a much more subtle way of expressing those strong views in the proper electoral system. And maybe if we’d had those MEPs—MPs; not MEPs, but MPs—from UKIP over the last 10 years, expressing those frustrations that they have and the perfectly acceptable policy positions they had, we wouldn’t have had a situation where, just last week, people thought, ‘It’s time to say “no” to the kind of politics we’ve had for so long, and the way to do that is by voting out of the European Union’, therefore cutting off their nose to spite their face. But that’s the situation we have.

Plaid Cymru’s wedded to STV. We may not win the argument for STV in the long run, because there might be a force here in the Assembly that argues for a different kind of proportional representation. After all, we have a kind of proportional representation now with the list system. But we’ll continue to argue for STV in the absence of any argument for an alternative to improve politics, which neither the Conservatives nor Labour have suggested today. Unless we do something about first-past-the-post, we are condemned to always polarising debate and to having the sort of decisions we had last week. Let’s awaken our politics, let’s bring in young people, let’s give them the vote as well, and let’s ensure that we have a better forum and a better representative parliamentary democracy at Welsh level and UK level that properly, therefore, expresses people’s frustrations and complaints and doesn’t lead us to the false promises and false choices that we had last week.