1. 1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:37 pm on 5 July 2016.
Questions now from the party leaders, and first of all this week, the leader of the opposition, Leanne Wood.
Diolch yn fawr. First Minister, the Westminster political system is in crisis, with skulduggery and backstabbing going on in both the Conservative Party and your own party in London. And this has had a major effect on Wales and on our country’s future. Would the First Minister be prepared to have a word with Welsh MPs to tell them to get a grip and to do their job, which is to hold the Conservative Government to account, and to make sure that Wales gets every single penny of the funds that we were promised in the event of a vote to leave the European Union?
Well, I’m not going to pretend to the leader of the opposition that things are stable at Westminster—that’s there for all to see. But I can say, as far as we’re concerned as a Government, we will fight for every single penny that Wales is owed, and I am absolutely confident that all those who represent my party at Westminster will do the same.
First Minister, I’m disappointed that you’re not prepared to show some leadership on this question. If you are not prepared to have a word with your own MPs, perhaps they’re prepared to listen to this message from me: voters in our constituencies want us to be their voice in this difficult time. They want us to tackle the racism that has risen in our communities, they want to get back to work, and they want to see us take our country forward. Now, the last thing they need right now is more division and more in-fighting.
In the public meeting that I did last night in Aberystwyth, First Minister, I heard from a young man whose family has a German background, and they are concerned about their future. They don’t know what rights they will have, they’re worried about reports in the press that their status might well be on the table in negotiations. Now, many children have been asking questions of their parents when they’re in this situation, and parents are finding it very difficult to answer those questions when so much is unknown. Now, I hope that you can cover this more comprehensively in the urgent question later on, but we need to be clear that EU citizens are a net benefit to Wales. We should all say that every single one of them are welcome here and that they shouldn’t have to leave this country if or when Brexit eventually takes place.
First Minister, what reassurances can you give to people living in Wales from other parts of Europe that you will champion them, their rights and their families?
In a way, that gives me the opportunity to answer the urgent question now, which I’m happy to do. I have written to the Home Secretary and I have said to her that, as far as the Welsh Government is concerned, we believe that EU citizens living in the UK should retain the right to do so after the UK withdraws from the EU. She and I are in the same position on that. I believe it’s utterly wrong to use EU citizens living in the UK as a bargaining chip in negotiations; it makes it sound as if they are hostages. They are not hostages; they are welcome in Wales.
I thank you for that answer, First Minister. Now, in a different meeting that I attended yesterday in Cardiff, I heard from a representative of one of the sectors that will be heavily affected by the Brexit vote. We were told that the further education and skills sector could lose £760 million of future funding if that money isn’t replaced. If and when that funding doesn’t materialise, the young people who are most affected will be those who are furthest away from the employment market. That’s just one sector of Welsh civic society, and it shows how important our EU membership is and the benefits that are there and that they shouldn’t just be discarded.
Do you agree with me that those voices from civic society deserve to be heard when the Brexit terms are negotiated, and will you draw up an official Welsh negotiating position, to be agreed by this National Assembly and sent to the incoming UK Prime Minister? And, if you are unable to hold the new Tory leader in Westminster to account for the promises that were made in the EU referendum campaign, can you tell us how those apprenticeship places, the training courses and the back-to-work schemes that are currently benefiting some of the most disadvantaged people in some of the most disadvantaged communities in Wales will be available to those people in the future?
First of all, she’s right to point out the funding gap that would exist. Secondly, she and I have discussed the issue of what the negotiating stance should be and I’m quite happy to share it with the Chamber: that is, first, that we will explore every possible avenue of benefit to Wales; secondly, I’ve already asked the economy Secretary to announce a series of measures to protect jobs and maintain economic confidence and stability and he has produced that. Yesterday, the environment and rural affairs secretary and I met key figures from Wales’s environment and agriculture and fisheries sectors to discuss the implications of the UK’s decision to leave the European Union. But, I have to say that there is a duty on those who called for the UK to leave the EU to ensure that the promises that they made in terms of funding for Wales are honoured. I have to say that the evidence of that now is getting thinner by the day. The question is: were the Welsh public told the truth before the referendum or is the truth emerging now?
The leader of the UKIP group, Neil Hamilton.
I’m sure the First Minister is aware that there is no question of EU citizens currently living or working in the United Kingdom being used as bargaining chips in any renegotiation, because their rights are fully protected under the 1969 Vienna convention. Can the First Minister confirm to me that that is the case?
Well, I can only quote what the Foreign Secretary has said and, indeed, the person who might yet become the Prime Minister, who has said that those rights are not guaranteed. Now, we need to have clarity and there needs to be a response from the current Home Secretary as quickly as possible in order that people can have assurance that, for many people who’ve lived in the UK for many, many years, they will not find their rights of residence removed. That clarity is essential.
Turning away from EU matters, the First Minister has rightly mentioned the prospects for employment in Wales following our leaving the EU, and he will be aware that the Welsh Government’s currently sitting on a decision in relation to the circuit of Wales. There was a problem in relation to this over the size of the guarantee that would be required for funding the project. Now I understand that that’s been reduced to less than 50 per cent of the total, so there doesn’t seem to be any reason why we can’t move swiftly to a decision to give this guarantee so that this huge job-making project can go ahead. So, could the First Minister please tell me where we’ve got to on this at the minute?
The economy Secretary will be making an announcement on the Circuit of Wales next week.
Oh, right. Well, I’m delighted to hear that, because it is vitally important for the whole of south-east Wales and, indeed, far beyond. This is the biggest regeneration project that we’ve seen in many, many years—£380 million—and I don’t expect that the First Minister can anticipate the Cabinet Secretary’s forthcoming announcement, but I hope he will accept from me that it is vitally important that the Welsh Government gives the go-ahead to this project.
All these factors will be taken into consideration. I assume I will have a heads-up before the decision is taken—I’m sure I will—but the economy Secretary, I know, will be making an announcement next week on the progress of this scheme.
The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, you earlier alluded to the fact that you and the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs met with the farming unions and other businesses from the rural communities yesterday. In questions, two weeks ago, the Cabinet Secretary said that she did not believe that farmers—and this is a direct quote—were
‘perhaps…the best people to run a business’.
Do you actually believe that is the case, that farmers aren’t the best people to run their own businesses?
That’s not what she said.
It’s a direct quote.
I can say that the event yesterday was hugely successful. We emphasised to the sector, first of all the environmental sector, that all those environmental laws that are already in Welsh law will remain. Secondly, as far as farming is concerned, just to emphasise the point, there is no such thing as British agricultural policy. It’s entirely devolved. So, there are opportunities for the farming industry to work with us as to what a future funding scheme might look like, what support they may want in the future—although, of course, that depends on the money being made available from the UK Government to provide that support. And thirdly, of course, in terms of fisheries, what should be done with Welsh territorial waters in terms of who should be able to fish in them and, secondly, whether Welsh boats wanted us to negotiate with other administrations in terms of obtaining fishing rights for them in other waters.
First Minister, the quote I gave you was a direct quote from the Record of Proceedings here and I do note that you didn’t distance yourself from that quote.
If I could also ask you a question on the letter that you released on the day of the referendum of 23 June in relation to the agreement that you have with the Liberal Democrats and, in particular, the assertion made by Kirsty Williams that the implications had significant budget implications over the nine education commitments that were made between you and the Liberal Democrats. What is the totality of the commitment that you have given in financial terms to meet the commitment that you made to the Liberal Democrats that brought them into Government? I do believe that’s a reasonable question because, as I said, the words that were quoted in the correspondence were ‘significant budget implications’.
Wherever there is European funding for a particular project, that project has to be looked at carefully when that European funding comes to an end. I thought that was obvious. That’s already been mentioned by the leader of the opposition. Unless that money is made up by the UK Government as promised, then it is clear, in the future, that some schemes will not be able to be funded in the way that we would hope.
He is very keen on quotes and quotations this afternoon. Let me just offer up some for him. On 2 March, Andrew R.T. Davies speaking on ‘The Wales Report’:
‘I can guarantee that a UK government would make sure that money would be re-distributed around the regions of the UK, otherwise it would be failing in its remit to deliver help and support to the nation’— he means the UK by that—
‘it is elected to govern. Frankly we cannot continue with operation fear, driving people in to the ballot box because you are scaring them into voting one way.’
On 14 June:
‘Campaigners for a Leave vote have said money Wales gets from Brussels would be maintained by the UK government in the event of Brexit.’
I welcome that.
Andrew R.T. Davies said:
‘Today's announcement is hugely welcome and is further evidence that Wales would be better off out of the European Union. Despite the first minister's fantasy claims, we now know that funding for each and every part of the UK, including Wales, would be safe if we vote to leave.’
On 21 June, Andrew R.T. Davies told the ‘Herald’:
‘Wales could be as much as half a billion pounds a year better off if the UK votes to leave the European Union on Thursday…Senior Government Ministers have already pledged to maintain existing EU funding if we Vote to Leave’.
And additional funding—a Barnett share of £9.8 billion that Wales could receive if we left the EU. And, today, he told the media that it wasn’t about money, it was about outcomes. Now, the question for him is this: does he believe that every single penny that has been lost to Wales should be made up by the UK Government? Does he stand by his quotations—and he is keen on quotations today—or is he running away from them this morning?
It’s quite remarkable that you’ve wasted so much of your time—but I’m quite happy that you’re using my quotes because you’ve got so little to say, First Minister. I stand by my quotes and I’m quite happy to put that on the record. I’m quite happy to debate with you any time, any place, First Minister, on the benefits that I see, and the people endorsed that at the ballot box on the referendum on 23 June. I find it absolutely amazing, after two very clear questions—one to distance yourself from a Cabinet Secretary who has ridiculed farmers’ business acumen, and two, over the deal that you have struck with the Liberal Democrats to bring them into Government that, in their own words, has significant budget implications for your Government. I don’t think those are outlandish questions to put in First Minister’s questions because in the campaign you did say that for every new budget commitment that was made by your Government there would have to be cuts elsewhere. So, nine weeks now after the election, it’s not unreasonable for the leader of the Conservatives in the Assembly here to ask you the question, ‘Right, you’ve committed this money to the Liberal Democrats’ commitments; where are you getting that money from?’ It’s not to do with the Brexit vote. It’s a commitment you made prior to the Brexit vote because these discussions were prior to the Brexit vote. So, where is the money coming from to meet the significant financial commitments that you have agreed with the Liberal Democrats going forward? Could we have a simple, straightforward answer, or is it quite simply that you don’t know?
Can I quote a good Belfast phrase at him? He’s living in a world of sweetie white mice, because, I tell you what, if he thinks that somehow he can get away from the fact that he has failed the people of Wales today by saying he will not fight for every single penny to be made up to Wales—. He had the opportunity to declare his position—he failed to do it. He’s right to point out there will be budget difficulties. That’s true, because we will be losing EU money—£650 million a year is going to be lost to our budget as a result of Brexit. Now, if all that money is made up, as he promised—as he promised three times—by the UK Government, now that will help. Now, the question for him is this: will he stand by the people of Wales or will he run away from the mess that he’s created?