12. 11. Debate: Renaming the National Assembly for Wales

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:25 pm on 5 July 2016.

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Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 6:25, 5 July 2016

I was, basically, going to say very little, but after that, I feel I should respond. On the timing issue, I’ve spent, now, 17 years in this place and people always say it’s never the right time for something. The reality is that the Welsh Assembly Government was established as a name and concept before it existed in law. When the legislature and the Executive were formally separated, so it existed. The name ‘Welsh Government’ is now fully in use, yet, it doesn’t actually exist in law, it’s still the ‘Welsh Assembly Government’, but we dropped the name ‘Assembly’ after 2011, and people have accepted that as normal.

I’m open to what the institution should call itself. For me, ‘National Assembly’ has never really worked; people don’t understand it in what I can describe as the common-law world. Yes, it is in use in other countries; in France, it is the ‘Assemblée Nationale’, I know that. But for us, I think it’s important that we have an institution that people understand. People do understand what a Parliament is; I’m not saying that that should be the only option on the table, but they understand what it means.

I listened carefully to what Gareth Bennett said; I can assure him I live in a street in Bridgend, my kids go to a local school and I shop locally—I don’t live in a bubble. I spend my time in a town where I grew up, with people I grew up with, and, certainly, I spend my time in the local community. I do object to the suggestion that Welsh people living in Cardiff are a colony—a colony. If somebody stood up in this Chamber and described people in Ceredigion or in Gwynedd, who are English speakers, as a ‘colony’, there would be uproar and I ask him to reflect on that fact. It makes it sound as if people in Wales who speak a certain language don’t belong in our capital city, and that is a wholly wrong remark and something that he needs to reflect on. I’m not sure that he meant it that way, but it will be highly offensive to a number of people. It’s not just him who has the right to live in our capital city; all Welsh people and people from around the world have a right to come here, to be welcomed here and to contribute to our economy.

He also makes the point that tax-raising powers are not being devolved; they have been devolved. Business rates are devolved; they are a tax. Landfill disposals tax and land transaction tax are in the pipeline and being taken through the Assembly; they are already devolved. There was never a suggestion that there would be a referendum before they were devolved. So, the devolution of partial income tax varying powers is a natural development in that way.

He makes the point again about timing. For me, I think it’s important that people get used to a new name, if that is the conclusion of the Assembly, well before the next election, so that people know the name of the institution they’re actually voting Members into. So, apart from that note of discord that we heard from the last speaker, I don’t think anybody else in the Chamber argued against this motion, but, of course, there will be a fuller debate as to what the name should actually be in the months to come.