Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 2:36 pm on 6 July 2016.
Diolch yn fawr. I’d like to thank the Secretary of State for Wales for his participation in the debate today, and for his response as well, and Members for their contributions to the debate as well. Of course, as has been said, today, the annual debate on the UK Government’s legislative programme has become a regular fixture in the Assembly’s calendar, but if all goes well, as everyone said, including the First Minister in his opening remarks, these fixtures will surely come to an end. The Wales Bill will sweep away the unnecessary requirements that currently restrict the way we do business in this Chamber, and we welcome that, but, of course, we personally welcome the Secretary of State, as we did indeed your predecessor—I think we said the same thing last year—and also, of course, welcome you not just as a former Member of this Assembly, but personally, sharing the same constituency, the Vale of Glamorgan, and enjoying that opportunity.
I think we can agree that the requirement for the Secretary of State to visit the Assembly, to consult us on the UK Government’s legislative programme, does not serve a purpose now and we recognise that. But, it’s interesting to look back and see that, since June 2008, we have debated 88 legislative consent motions—88 instances where UK legislation made provision in a devolved area, and the Assembly decided whether it should give its legislative consent or not. Our focus, of course, is on our own Welsh Government legislative programme, but we have to be alert to the overlap between our own legislation and the UK Government’s, and enable UK-wide solutions where appropriate to be taken forward through UK legislation, where that is our best option. In fact, the legislative consent process is an important constitutional principle, and I think it’s important to say that in this debate this afternoon. Where the Assembly has legislative powers, Westminster should not legislate without the Assembly’s consent, nor legislate to modify the Assembly’s legislative competence unless the Assembly consents.
The Wales Bill will provide statutory recognition, which is welcome for this crucial convention. For Wales, as is the case, of course, in Scotland, it hasn’t had a statutory underpinning and the Wales Bill will provide that. And that’s an important and welcome change. But, the Bill should make it clear that the convention applies where Parliament legislates to modify the Assembly’s legislative competence, as well as where Parliament legislates on matters that are already devolved. It’s impossible to say at this stage how many times we will need to ask the Assembly for its legislative consent in the coming year. But, I have written to the Llywydd with the Welsh Government’s initial assessment of the UK Government’s legislative programme and its implications for Assembly business. We’ve already laid memorandums for LCMs on the Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill and the Policing and Crime Bill; Mark Isherwood has already commented on that this afternoon.
I would like to speak in support of the two amendments that have been tabled by Plaid Cymru. On the first amendment, we agree that if powers can be offered to Scotland or Northern Ireland, they should also be offered to Wales. It’s time for a more coherent and consistent approach by the UK Government, treating each part of the UK with equal respect. On the second amendment, it must be a priority to ensure the continuity of important EU legislation that has been enacted in Wales and the rest of the UK. It’s not clear yet, of course, how this continuity will be achieved, but we must do all we can to ensure that progress made over the years, particularly, for example, as discussed yesterday in this Chamber on environmental issues and on protecting workers’ rights, does not take a backward step.
The Secretary of State returned to this important issue of the response since 23 June in terms of our response to the referendum. I want to, again, follow up on what the First Minister has said in his letter to the Prime Minister, following the outcome of the referendum. We’re doing everything we can in our power to protect Welsh interests, strengthen the economy and unify the nation. It’s important that we recognise, and the First Minister made this very clear to the Prime Minister, that Wales should be fully involved in negotiating the UK’s exit from the EU to ensure that the interests of Wales and its people are taken fully into account so that we can achieve the best possible deal. I am glad that the Secretary of State commented on that and the opportunities in his opening statement.
Just to give you some examples, the Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, Ken Skates, has already announced a series of short-term measures to protect jobs and maintain economic confidence and stability, including, importantly, having a growth jobs event in north Wales, which I think the Secretary of State has also been invited to. Mark Drakeford, the Secretary for Finance and Local Government is doing all that he can to ensure that there is no loss of funding to Wales, following the result of the referendum. That’s what people want to hear in terms of our response. On Monday, the First Minister and the Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths, are meeting key figures from Wales’s environment and agricultural sectors to discuss the implications of the UK’s decision to leave the European Union.
I would also like to just draw attention to the letter that the First Minister wrote to Theresa May yesterday and it follows up on Simon Thomas’s point about EU nationals. He wrote to say that he’d been increasingly concerned about the position of EU citizens living, working or studying in Wales. Of course, you’ve also commented, Secretary of State, on the students coming to Wales later in the year and those already living and studying in Wales. Of course, the First Minister said to the Home Secretary that, across Wales and indeed the UK generally, there are many sectors of business, including the NHS, that depend on EU citizens to fill vital posts. Will you confirm, he says, that EU citizens who work and live here at the time of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU will retain the right to do so? He also goes on to talk about the negative experience of EU citizens and other immigrants in terms of the impact of abusive behaviour and hate crime, which, of course, we have been addressing as a Welsh Government, and also with the police and the police and crime commissioners, recognising this as a crucial issue, which is unfortunately one of the very sad outcomes of the referendum.
Many Bills have been mentioned today—welcomed or noted and points made. I’m sure that there will be a great deal of interest in Neil Hamilton’s exposition on the soft drinks industry in terms of the Finance Bill’s soft drinks industry levy. Of course, as Jenny Rathbone says, the Welsh Government wants to see a reduction in the amount of sugar that people are consuming and have consistently urged the Secretary of State for Health to deliver stronger action on sugar at a UK level.
Rightly and importantly, I must draw attention to the points that have been made about policing by Rhianon Passmore and Steffan Lewis. They would welcome the amendments proposed by the First Minister to the Wales Bill. This is a very strong message—consistent, I have to say, with the cross-party recommendations of the Silk commission—that the Welsh Government is proposing amendments, focusing on the fact that priorities determined for policing for the whole of England and Wales, under current arrangements, can’t properly reflect distinctive Welsh circumstances, and going on to say that policing is the only major service not currently the responsibility of the devolved institutions in Wales, and, of course, the impact that has in terms of collaboration with other blue-light services. There is clear evidence from Silk, as a result, that devolution would create a better alignment between policies for tackling crime and its causes as well as accountability for policing.
Julie Morgan draws attention to momentous events since the Queen’s Speech was presented in Westminster—indeed, Simon Thomas talks about how the political landscape has changed so much—and she rightly draws attention to the contradictions presented in the Queen’s Speech, which purport to aim to strengthen the economy and increase the life chances of young people, but then she clearly identifies, as I think we can and we have done in this Chamber, the impact of austerity and the impact in terms of inequalities deepening and the cuts to our budget, but also giving examples, as we can, in terms of the impact of policies that are reserved to the UK Government, particularly in relation to welfare, which we all know and understand in terms of the impact on the lives of vulnerable people. I think this is why it’s so vital that we do look at this in terms of the wider perspective, in terms of what we can do with our powers and responsibilities and how we can develop and strengthen them.
This brings me to the all-important point about a fiscal framework, which the First Minister addressed in his opening statement as well. Clause 16 removes the provision in the Wales Act 2014 for a referendum ahead of the devolution of income tax. Well, yes, if we are to go forward with that, we have to recognise this must be accompanied by a full commitment to a fiscal framework that we can agree. At present, the provision would leave it open to the UK Treasury to devolve income tax responsiblities by Order, with no requirement for consultation with the Assembly or Welsh Ministers. The Welsh Government is proposing an amendment so that Order-making powers should not be exercisable unless there is in place a full fiscal framework, and that has to cover the points that have been made. Nick Ramsay made the point as well about a fair block grant offset, long-term resolution of fair funding, an increase in the Welsh Government’s capital borrowing limit, and other matters, but they have to be agreed by both Governments. The Welsh Government has proposed that, before making a Treasury Order, the Secretary of State should lay the fiscal framework document before Parliament and the Order should not be made until the fiscal framework has been agreed by both Houses of Parliament and by the Assembly—crucially important in terms of the way forward.
Finally, I’d say that Huw Irranca-Davies has set the tone as the new Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, following on from the excellent work—and, of course, he’s a member still—of David Melding, the predecessor Chair. He does make it very clear that there’s a real opportunity here for us to work together. The committee is now up and running and the invitation has come, not just prior to this debate, but of course questions were raised about whether you would accept that invitation to attend that committee as Secretary of State, and I hope he will do, because there is so much that we can benefit from in that full engagement and the courtesy that we have offered today.