6. 4. Statement: The Land Transaction Tax and Anti-avoidance of Devolved Taxes (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:00 pm on 13 September 2016.

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Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 5:00, 13 September 2016

Turning to the last question first: the rules for how cross-border properties are to be treated in devising the new tax strategy are set out in the 2014 Act. They’re not something that we have the freedom to manoeuvre over, even when there are sensible suggestions about how it might be done differently. We have a rulebook; we are trying to design the best system we can within it. Do I expect that practitioners on the other side of the border will do less business in Wales as a result of the Bill? That’s not the intention of the Bill, but I can see how, in the way we’ve described the future of the Bill, staying relatively close to known ways of doing things to begin with—. Greater divergence—not simply on our side, but law in relation to stamp duty land tax has changed relatively rapidly on an England and Wales basis, so there will be changes the other side of the border as well that will emphasise divergence over time, and that may change the way that people carry out their business.

I was interested in what the Member had to say about tensions between different ambitions for simplicity and clarity and so on. If there are tensions that we haven’t seen for ourselves, or that will come to greater prominence during the scrutiny process—I think that will be very useful, and I will certainly attend very careful to any examples that emerge. The Member asked about where new departures are to be found in the Bill, and even though, as I say, our ambition is to allow for a smooth transition, there are examples throughout the Bill of where we have adjusted arrangements to take account of Welsh needs and priorities. In relation to leases, for example, which have always been a topic of interest in the Welsh context, you will see that the rent element of residential leases are not proposed to be taxed under LTT, although they are under SDLT. We’re making improvements in the rules for leases that continue after a fixed term and indefinite-term leases, which are important in a Welsh context, and also changes to how the rules operate when a new lease is granted, but the date on which it is to commence is backdated. All of these things are intended to be consistent with our ambitions for greater simplicity, consistency and fairness, but they do arise directly from our experience of leases and leaseholding here in Wales.

Where did they all come from, these two particular taxes? Well, they come from the Silk commission, and from the work that the commission did and its very thorough examination of all the different possibilities of taxes that could be devolved to Wales. The principle that we’re establishing, Dirprwy Lywydd, just to end with, is of course the principle that we are able to take responsibility for taxes that affect people in Wales directly through the National Assembly. But it’s a wider principle than that, and it’s why we are right to focus on it and to celebrate it to an extent. And that’s the principle—that a body that expends revenue should take some responsibility for raising the revenue that it expends. We’ve never been in that position in the National Assembly for Wales to date. We will be in that position once this law and the landfill disposals tax come into being, and that’s the journey that we’re embarking on this afternoon.