2. What legal advice has the Counsel General provided to the Welsh Government in relation to the protection of maritime natural resources? OAQ(5)0004(CG)

Again, Members will understand that my advice is legally privileged, but I place great value on the protection of maritime natural resources. You will be aware of the active prosecution work that is being undertaken by me on behalf of the Welsh Government.

Thank you. In the last Assembly, two of the committees—the Environment and Sustainability Committee and the Enterprise and Business Committee—highlighted the importance of developing a marine plan. The Welsh Government intends to consult on a draft plan later this year, a plan that will be pioneering for Wales and would ensure that we protect our outstanding natural environment. With Brexit, Wales’s fisheries and maritime natural resources will come under the spotlight. What further steps can the Welsh Government take to make sure any implementation of the plan stands up to legal scrutiny?

Clearly, the issues that you raise are predominantly matters to be referred to the appropriate Cabinet Minister. Where I have a specific interest and responsibility is in respect of the enforcement actions that are actually taken under existing legislation. Of course, what future legislation there is will depend, obviously, on the outcome of discussions and the approach the Welsh Government takes to changes to Welsh law in the light of Brexit. But it is worth commenting on the steps that are being taken to protect our natural resources, because if law isn’t enforced it becomes meaningless.

Our natural resources are very, very valuable for our future, both commercially and environmentally, so I can say that, over the past three years, officers have investigated 57 infringements, which have led to 31 successful prosecutions. And as a result of the hard work of our marine enforcement officers, since May this year, six prosecutions for fishing offences have been brought in my name as Counsel General before the magistrates’ courts in Haverfordwest. In July, three scallop fishing vessels received penalties totalling £62,000, and in August three further vessels were prosecuted with combined fines and costs of over £26,000. So, these prosecutions should serve as a clear warning and deterrent to fishermen that I as Counsel General and the courts take fishing offences in Wales very seriously and I will look to uphold our laws to protect our natural resources. I can also tell you that, in order to understand better the nature of the enforcement and the work that is carried out, I am tomorrow travelling to Haverfordwest in order to visit the enforcement officers and to discuss any issues around those important issues.

I’m pleased to hear that the Counsel General will be going to Haverfordwest and will be travelling to west Wales, but may I ask him—? He will, I’m sure, be aware that developing the marine plan and a number of marine conservation areas stems directly from European legislation, and I think it’s extremely important that such legislation is implemented by the Welsh Government. There are a number of people who have suggested that that legislation is about to be breached by the fact that the Welsh Government hasn’t responded promptly to that legislation. Will the Counsel General therefore give the Assembly a guarantee that we are in no danger of facing infraction proceedings from the European Commission?

Presiding Officer, I—

I don’t think the Counsel General understood the question fully because of some technical problems. Perhaps you would be in a situation to repeat the first part of the question.

Yes, of course. Is it working now?

Can I check with the Council General—?

A ydy’r offer cyfieithu’n gweithio?

It’s not working. It was working, but it’s not working now.

Are you able to use next door’s?

This one’s working, yes.

I should have said ‘the Cabinet Secretary for Education’s’, rather than ‘next door’.

Simon Thomas, ymddiheuriadau, ond a yw hi’n bosib ichi ailadrodd y cwestiwn?

I do apologise that I hadn’t tabled a question, but I seem to have two questions in any case. I was asking the Counsel General, as the marine plan and other legislation that the Government has stems originally from European legislation, and as we are already late, as I understand it, in implementing these plans, is there any risk that the European Commission—whatever the result of the referendum—is there any risk that the European Commission may take infraction proceedings against the Welsh Government, as this legislation is late in the day in being implemented? Will the Counsel General give a guarantee that the Government isn’t facing any sort of infraction proceedings from the European Commission?

Under the habitats directive, in respect of birds and, I think, of harbour porpoises, what I do know is that there are two sets of infraction proceedings against the UK Government, or steps that have been initiated. I’m obviously not in a position to say any more about those as they’re matters that relate to the UK Government and obviously there’ll be further discussions and consideration of those. So, obviously, EU law continues to apply. We have to abide by the directives. We still have to implement—article 50 has not been implemented, so our position remains exactly as it was before in terms of our obligations to ensure compliance. Of course, you do also raise the very interesting point in that, even after Brexit, consideration will have to be given to what EU legislation we want to actually retain because it is good legislation, positive legislation and for the benefit of Wales.

I was privileged to lead a delegation for the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, including both Jayne and Simon, to the Ceredigion coast late last week. One issue we learnt from marine organisations there is that it was the marine strategic framework directive where there was, it was suggested, a potential breach and consequent, at least in theory, enforcement action. We just wondered—under that directive there’s a requirement to draw up protection zones and then check they have good environmental status, but there seems to be quite a lot of overlap with the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 and our obligations there, but also opportunity with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, to take a more proactive and ambitious approach. I just wondered whether the Counsel General would support that broader approach—or the extent to which we do need to worry about infraction proceedings under that marine strategic framework directive.

My role is obviously to advise when specific issues arise in terms of the actual implementation of policy, and the development of special protection areas, I think, is a question that is probably best directed to the appropriate Cabinet Secretary.

I thank the Counsel General.