Could I thank Mike Hedges, who I always listen to very carefully on these matters? I’ve said to him before: it’s never been a claim of mine that size is the determining factor in the success of public services; nor, however, do I think that size is an irrelevant factor in the way that things are organised. Size does bring some advantages in some aspects. So, I don’t rule it out, but I don’t think it’s the factor that overrides all others.

I said in my statement that, when I said to you that you could have three city regions discharging some functions and another set of regional arrangements for other functions, that was what was said to me during the visits that I have made since May and June of last year. I’m not wedded to that dual model, and I’m very happy to have further detailed discussions. He says to me that the city region is the footprint. Well, is it the footprint for social services in the Cardiff capital city region, where there are 10 local authorities, with three different health boards serving some very diverse populations? I don’t know. I just put the question there for us to discuss.

Finally, the point that I think he makes about primary and secondary healthcare being brought together in single health boards is that organisational boundaries do not, by themselves, dissolve professional boundaries. In that sense, I certainly do agree with him.