The next item is the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure on the future of bus services in Wales, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Ken Skates.

Diolch, Lywydd. On 20 September, the First Minister published our programme for government for the next five years, giving our commitment to continuing to build a united and connected society. To help realise this ambition, we have committed to the delivery of a multimodal integrated transport system for the whole of Wales, including the south and north Wales metros, which will act as the blueprint for integrated systems across Wales. Fundamental to our ambition will be the delivery of a more effective network of bus services. Local scheduled bus services are, and will continue to be, the foundation of our public transport system.

It is a fact that more people in Wales use buses as a public transport alternative to the private motor vehicle for their daily commute to work and for leisure, and although we have witnessed a downward trend in the number of passenger journeys made on local bus services over the past decade, buses continue to account for more than 101 million passenger journeys each year. This is significantly more than the number of journeys undertaken on our rail network. So our long-term commitment to deliver a more effective network of buses is absolute, as is our commitment to support the bus industry in the short term.

Last month, I announced a five-point plan to support the bus industry in Wales and, today, I want to provide Members with the opportunity to discuss the plan and consider how we might develop local bus services as part of the integrated public transport system that is fit for a modern and connected Wales. Like many Members in this Chamber, I’ve been surprised and saddened by the recent and sudden demise of three local bus companies serving some of our more rural communities, not only for the impact these closures have had on the people working for these companies, but the impact on the people living in the communities served by them. The loss of these vital services, enabling people to get to work, to hospital appointments and to education, brings into stark focus the reality of the fragility of our bus network.

Under the five-point plan I announced last month, I’ll be offering all bus companies in Wales dedicated professional assistance through Business Wales and Finance Wales, and will call on local authorities to make every effort to protect their funding for bus services in the current challenging economic climate. Whereas larger operators have teams of business advisers and access to highly qualified staff, many smaller operators may be family concerns that are run without those advantages. I want to ensure that these smaller bus companies have access to the advice and support that will help them become better and more resilient businesses. We will work proactively with local authorities to identify, at the earliest opportunity, potentially vulnerable bus services. Where these are identified, we will put a local strategy in place to respond to any planned withdrawal of services considered vital to the sustainability and well-being of the local community.

I will be meeting leaders of the local authorities in Cardiff and Newport, together with the managing directors of their municipal bus companies, to gather intelligence on how sustainable bus networks can be operated whilst maintaining the social dividend by investing in service improvements. I will also work with the Confederation of Passenger Transport to combine the best characteristics of the private commercial sector with the social responsibility of the public sector operators in Wales. I have agreed to fund new bus co-ordinator posts, one in north Wales and one in south Wales, to bring together the various strands of policy and investment to develop the statutory bus quality partnership model. I am keen to see more formal agreements between local authorities and bus operators, preferably through these statutory bus quality partnership schemes.

Finally, as part of this plan, I have agreed to hold a bus services summit in early 2017. The summit will bring together local authorities, bus operators, groups representing passengers and disabled people together with the Community Transport Association and other partners to consider how best bus services that are financially viable and sustainable in the longer term can be delivered. Whilst this action plan has been needed to deal with the very real threats posed to our local bus services in the short term, the summit will offer an opportunity to focus on the future, rather than on the past. I am convinced that a collaborative and creative approach to ensure a quality, equitable and sustainable bus network that serves communities whilst delivering value for money for the taxpayer is very much needed. Together, we need to define what we want our bus services to deliver as part of an integrated public transport system and then design a framework that can deliver these quality services. So, the timing of the summit could not be better, coming at a time when the improved devolved settlement offered through the Wales Bill will be coming into effect. The new settlement will enable us to put into place a framework for bus services that can deliver the improved network quality, frequency, reliability and punctuality that all of us in this Chamber want to see in place.

The publication of the voluntary Welsh bus quality standards in March this year, setting out clearly, for the first time, the quality standards that we want to see in place for local bus services, is a good starting point. It is important that passengers can have confidence that the quality of local bus services will be universally applied to local scheduled bus services across the whole of Wales. The quality of service delivered in the more rural parts of Wales should be no less favourable than those provided within the metro or more urbanised parts of the country.

I also welcome the Department for Transport’s proposals, as part of the Bus Services Bill, to amend the Equality Act 2010 to require bus operators across Great Britain to provide disabled passengers with accessible information on board vehicles. Since 2013, we have supported the introduction of next-stop audio-visual announcement systems on buses to improve the accessibility to bus services for the blind and people with sight loss. We have encouraged bus operators to install these systems on board their vehicles as part of our Welsh bus quality standards and I look forward to working with ministerial colleagues in England and Scotland to ensure that quality accessible passenger information is universally available across Great Britain. The introduction of these systems, taken together with improved service quality, such as the continuing development of the TrawsCymru bus service, delivering improved longer-distance connectivity where rail services are limited or do not exist, demonstrates how the spiral of declining bus service patronage can be reversed, offering people a real alternative for meeting their transport needs.

So, in looking to the future, we must be realistic. Delivering scheduled local bus services that are financially viable and sustainable in the longer term to every community in Wales may not be realistic, achievable or affordable. But I am not prepared to abandon more isolated communities to a life that is dependant wholly on the private motor car. That is simply not acceptable. So, at the summit, I will be calling on our partners, the bus industry and our local authority partners, to explore solutions to meet the transport needs of all our communities. We need an integrated transport and ticketing system comprising a mix of quality demand responsive transport services that interface far more effectively with local scheduled bus services and longer-distance services provided by our TrawsCymru network and rail franchise.

This is a challenge that we in Welsh Government, together with local authorities and the bus and community transport sectors, must address. Together, I am confident that we can deliver a quality, equitable and sustainable bus network that provides communities and individuals across Wales with the services they need and which they deserve.

I very much welcome, Cabinet Secretary, your statement today. It’s a very positive statement, and I’m impressed with what you’ve said today.

I do have a number of questions. Firstly, I would be grateful if you could outline the funding attached to the commitments made today, and whether you have considered a multi-year funding agreement to provide certainty for operators to plan and invest in their services, rather than on a year-by-year basis?

Cabinet Secretary, you’ve said that significantly more people in Wales use buses compared with journeys undertaken on our rail network. So, with that in mind, there is an issue of imbalance between public funding spent on the rail network and on the bus network. So, I wonder if you have got views on that balance, and whether you think that needs to be addressed.

I have to say, I think I was very impressed with the point you made that you’re not prepared to abandon more isolated communities to a life that is dependent wholly on the motor car, and that this is simply not acceptable. Of course, that is particularly relevant to rural communities across Wales. Cuts to the bus service operators grant have meant that some routes have been discontinued. Certainly, it’s my view that the bus operators grant is vital in ensuring that communities have regular bus services, especially in those rural isolated areas that you mentioned. So, can I ask whether you have considered restoring full funding for this grant to provide local authorities and bus operators with the confidence to sustain and reinstate previously unviable bus routes?

There’s also still a cultural perception that buses are not viable modes of transport for all. So, I would be grateful if you could outline how the Welsh Government intends to help encourage the change in perception, and prioritise measures that will incentivise more people to make the change from private transport to buses, through measures such as smart ticketing, which, of course, makes travel more convenient and flexible.

The bus industry in Wales has made no secret, certainly to me when I met with representatives over the summer, of the fact that a true partnership between operators, Welsh Government and local authorities is necessary. Therefore, can I ask what progress has been made by the Welsh Government in implementing recommendations from your bus policy advisory group, which has previously recommended that network partnerships should be established?

Further to this, Cabinet Secretary, you will be aware that the UK Government has proposed a buses Bill, which is intended to strengthen arrangements for partnership working in the sector. Your predecessor previously noted that there are a number of significant limitations to the Assembly’s current powers to introduce similar legislation in Wales. Would you be able to expand on this? Can I also ask what intentions does the Government have to extend the concessionary fares scheme to younger carers who carry out an important role in Welsh society, and who currently miss out on vital transport links to further education?

And finally, I was pleased to hear you mention ‘integrated’ on a number of occasions throughout your statement. The lack of integration between bus and train timetables has been an issue that does require major improvements. You’ll be aware that I’ve mentioned to you an issue in my own constituency, in Caersws, where the bus arrives one minute after the train, or vice versa. So, I would be grateful for more information on what you intend to do to ensure an integrated transport system, and avoid these timetable issues.

I’d like to thank Russell George for his questions, and also for welcoming the five-point plan. This is a plan that’s been devised with partners in local government and within the industry itself. It contains a number of actions that will shore up the industry in the short term as we look at the long-term opportunities presented through the transfer of powers in the Wales Bill.

In terms of funding, the Welsh Government has maintained the bus services support grant now for a number of years, and we’re pleased to be able to maintain it at £25 million again next year. The challenge for local government is to ensure that they do not cut the availability of resources within their own authorities to support, in particular, rural routes that are not commercially viable.

We do also provide capital funding that amounts to approximately £15 million. In terms of concessionary travel, of course, we provide opportunities for hundreds of thousands of people to travel without charge. There is, without a doubt, a need to use integrated ticketing—until we have the powers that will come through the Wales Bill—to drive integrated transport. We know, through experiences across Wales so far, that integrated ticketing can be a challenge for many bus service operators, but it is not an insurmountable one. In terms of opportunities, moving forward, for integrated ticketing, the Competition and Markets Authority wrote to all local authorities about competition, co-operation and partnership working in local bus markets, and reiterated its support for well-designed multi-operated ticketing schemes.

The Bus Services Bill, which I think the Member raised as well, is predominantly relevant only to England, but it does include an interesting provision that would allow local authorities to require bus operators to market and advertise multi-operated tickets clearly and consistently. It’s my view that, with the availability of multi-operator ticketing, we will see, as a consequence, a more integrated approach to bus service provision. That said, with the Wales Bill, we will have powers that will enable the regulation of local bus services brought into the competence of the National Assembly. Together with our existing legislative competence, we’ll be able to introduce a framework for bus services that will enable a far improved service network, greater quality, more regular bus services and greater reliability and punctuality. That said, until we have those powers and we’re able to design the framework, there are also the voluntary quality bus standards, which can be used in particular to challenge perceptions.

I know that what the Member raised about the widespread views of bus transport are held by many and are a barrier to many accessing bus services. In terms of the voluntary Welsh bus quality standard, there are a number of points that need to be achieved in the standard for bus companies to satisfactorily qualify. They include the operation of vehicles that are compliant with the public service vehicle accessibility regulations, and ensuring that vehicles have working destination blinds that are clearly visible, telling passengers about the destination and key stopping points along the routes. Buses need to be clean inside and out, and ready for the first service each day. Drivers must have a uniform—it seems basic stuff, but it’s the sort of provision that ensures that people actually respect the bus service as being of a high quality. They must also have a published passenger complaints policy, and larger bus companies will be expected to operate all-year visual next-bus-stop announcements on newer buses.

I think that the provisions within these voluntary standards are challenging perceptions, but there is a need, I believe, for the industry to do more collectively, in particular, to appeal to younger passengers. The Member raised the question of whether younger carers could be offered concessionary fares. Where a younger carer falls through the gap of the concessionary fare system at present, I’d be more than willing to consider offering opportunities for them to travel at a reduced or free rate. There would, of course, be a need to ensure that the system is operating fairly, not least given the legal cases concerning fraud in north Wales that have contributed to a reduction in the number of passenger journeys on the bus network. But I would not be averse to considering any opportunities that need to be presented for carers to be able to access employment opportunities, education, or indeed to travel to and from the places of care.

Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary for the Economy and Infrastructure for his comprehensive statement—comprehensive in terms of the answers and comprehensive in terms of that questions that have been asked, so I won’t rehearse anything that has already been mentioned, but just to emphasise that the bus service is vital, especially for that cohort of our population that is increasingly becoming older, but is still fit and healthy, but doesn’t feel confident enough to drive a car. Well, this is the way that they go around. They are dependent on the bus routes that already exist offering services that are prompt—that you can depend on them turning up and similar issues.

To begin, I’ll look at the local side of things. Of course, bus services were deregulated several years ago, perhaps even before the Cabinet Secretary was born. But the business of having a private service was meant to improve the standard of the service and to improve the provision of the bus service. Perhaps that was true in some examples, but it was not true in all places, as we’ve already heard. From my days as a county councillor in Swansea, I was aware that, as a local authority, the private bus companies received a great deal of funding, but when people wanted a service to continue in a particular area, then the business elements were prioritised, not the fact that the bus companies were receiving a great deal of public funding to provide a service, yet they could stop that service when it suited them. I do believe that there’s still an element of that. You talked a lot about the role of local authorities in this regard. They have funding and some local authorities provide funding. Some, I believe, don’t provide any funding at all to bus services—you’ve already stated that.

I have particular interest in these developments when you go to meetings with Cardiff and Newport about sustainable bus networks, that is, to get to grips with this question that there are some services, even in the heart of our larger cities, that don’t pay their way and are in danger of being stopped perhaps. So, I’d like to know a little bit more about the sustainable bus networks and perhaps developing them for areas such as Swansea.

And the second point, and I am aware that time is against us, Presiding Officer, but we’ve talked a lot about the need to improve links between north and south Wales in the context of the roads and also railways, but the same is true about the bus links. As I’ve already said, there are a great many people who like to live their lives dependent on the bus. That’s possible, especially with the free bus travel that is increasingly available for people who are perhaps older, but who are still fit and want to travel around Wales.

In that regard, interest has been expressed in the bus service between Aberystwyth and Cardiff, which was lost recently because the Lloyds Coaches company finished its operation. There’s no link there, despite the popular family name. Of course, I am aware that the Cabinet Secretary has confirmed with Elin Jones AM, the local Member, that there would be a new service in place by the end of October. Naturally, we are talking about links between south and north Wales and north and south Wales that are vitally important to unite our nation. But in terms of that specific service between Aberystwyth and Cardiff, can you give an update on when we can expect to see that excellent bus service once again running and joining up our nation—a service that is so vitally important to us as a nation? Thank you very much.

Can I thank Dai Lloyd for his question and also for making enquiries regarding the important service between Aberystwyth and Cardiff, along with other Members, including the Presiding Officer? This is an essential service and its loss was severely regretted. I’m pleased to be able to say that alternative arrangements for this particular bus service are now at an advanced stage, and we anticipate being in a position to make an announcement on the detail of this service within days.

It’s absolutely essential that people in rural parts of Wales are able to enjoy bus services, not least because they are social spaces. Unlike other modes of travel, they offer people who are often socially isolated a means of interacting with people. When the services are lost, that opportunity is lost with it. I know, in my own experience of representing a constituency where a bus operator folded recently—GHA Coaches—when that happened, it was the elderly who were most affected, who rely on that service, and young people, often young people who are socially isolated and who greatly rely on bus services in order to access a place of employment or learning. So, rural services, as the Member identified, are absolutely vital.

I’d agree that, in many respects, deregulation in the mid-1980s has failed, but I also, like the Member, wish to know more about how some services in Wales appear to be far more sustainable than others. There are examples—and I identified them in my statement—within the south-east of Wales, where there are particularly sustainable services that we can look to and learn from. I’ll be meeting with council representatives and bus operator representatives to ascertain precisely what it is that they do differently that enables them to operate in a more sustainable way, and I’ll be happy to share any experience that I gain from that, and any insight that I gain with other Members. Of course, I’ll also be sharing that information with bus operators and local authorities across Wales.

It appears to me that there is a considerable difference between some local authorities in terms of the provision for bus services that are not commercially viable, and the Member mentioned that he’s aware of some local authorities that have simply stopped funding those non-commercial routes. I am also aware of some local authorities that have done that. Others have been more responsible in ensuring that there is support available. Again, in the case of GHA Coaches, what that brought to light was that one local authority—Flintshire County Council—had maintained support to the tune of something in the region of £1.3 million for non-commercial services, whereas, in contrast, next door in Wrexham I believe the budget had been reduced to zero. That then places pressures on those services that cross local authority borders because you have one local authority that has albeit a very limited degree of resource available, but another that simply doesn’t. So, it’s very important that, at the bus summit in the new year, local authorities are able to learn and to contribute as much as the bus service operators themselves.

I believe that covers all the questions that the Member asked.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement—as usual, succinct and enlightening—but does he not agree with me that the critical element in the operation and effectiveness of bus services is, of course, connectivity with the rail infrastructure? So, can the Cabinet Secretary tell me what efforts are being made to synchronise bus and rail timetables? The question was prompted when one of my colleagues’ constituents pointed out the fact that the bus service to Cardigan leaves 10 minutes before the Great Western train arrives at Carmarthen, often resulting in a two-hour wait for onward travellers. Surely it is incumbent upon bus companies to schedule services to best serve their customers, thus facilitating a more integrated transport system. Will the Cabinet Secretary comment on this, please?

Can I thank the Member for his kind words and questions? In the fourth Assembly I recall, when I was on the back benches and a member of the enterprise committee, the question of integrated ticketing and integrated travel occupied a considerable amount of our time. I know that it created a good degree of frustration amongst Members. Much of that frustration still exists, but we are now at the point in time where there is an enormous opportunity, both in terms of bus services and rail, to integrate them more fully through the new Wales and borders franchise and, of course, the provisions contained within the Wales Bill. I would hope, between those two processes, alongside the encouragement and development of more integrated ticketing that, in turn, can drive bus operators to act in a more integrated way, insofar as timetables are concerned, that by the end of this Assembly that degree of frustration that backbench Members expressed previously will not be there.

I welcome the five points that the Cabinet Secretary has made, and I welcome the importance that he’s giving to buses, which are obviously a vital part of our transport system. The first point that I wanted to make, really, was about the importance of buses to young people. This has already been alluded to in the debate so far, but I think that it is absolutely vital that we do take on the views of young people when we are planning transport. I’m delighted he’s going to have a summit early in the new year. Can he ensure that young people are present at that summit? We don’t have a youth parliament yet, but there must be ways of getting young people—representative groups of young people—so that they can take part in the debate and say what is important to them about transport. Because I think it is an absolute fact that 64 per cent of people who are seeking jobs have no access to a vehicle or can’t drive. So, it is absolutely vital for young people—who, of course, are not the only people seeking jobs, but a large number are—that they have got access and are able, actually, to get to job interviews. So, I think a role for young people is the first thing I want to mention.

The second thing is congestion. I’m sure people are deterred from travelling on buses because of the congestion and the slowness, sometimes, of travelling on buses. Certainly, I’ve got an almost totally urban constituency, where there is often deadlock of traffic. So, would he commend Cardiff Council on their efforts in bringing in bus lanes and, in particular, introducing the bus lane on Caerphilly Road? It has been hugely controversial and has been dreadfully disruptive to all the neighbours, but I think, in the long term, it will certainly move things along. Then interchange and connectivity has been mentioned, and it is absolutely fantastic that Cardiff bus station, which my colleague Jenny Rathbone mentioned earlier this afternoon, is actually now being started to be rebuilt. But if there’s anything he can do to encourage Network Rail to do their bit of the bargain and make sure that at least people travelling from the bus station to the train station will be able to go under cover, I think that would be very worth while doing.

He’s mentioned disabled people. I really welcome what he said about disabled people and making sure that they are included in all the discussions and any future debate. I’d like to end by thanking Bus Users Cymru, who I think do an excellent job. I know that there is a reception tomorrow, I think, which is being hosted by Jane Hutt here. But I think the points that they drew—the fact that 41 per cent of people who’ve contacted them have said they are concerned at the level of service—shows the need and the demand that there is in Wales for this bedrock of the service.

I’d like to thank the Member for her questions and very much endorse what she said, not least about the importance of Bus Users Cymru and of the need for Network Rail to ensure that the upgrades, which are long overdue, to Cardiff railway station are appropriate and ensure that there is a seamless, safe passenger journey from the railway station to the bus station.

In terms of congestion on roads, I would very much welcome the developments that have taken place in Cardiff. We could consider them, in many respects, best practice. I recognise that, in many parts of Wales, due to the narrowness of urban roads and streets, it can be difficult to incorporate bus routes into built-up areas. However, where they are possible, I think it’s absolutely essential. In terms of the metro development in south Wales, of course there may be a role for rapid bus transport, which would also see smooth operations of rapid buses within residential and commercial areas.

I’m very keen to attract to the summit in the new year young people and also disabled people. I’d be very open to any suggestions that Members have as to where we should seek appropriate people from. And also, with regard to the question posed by Russell George, I’d also be keen to invite along, possibly, young carers to be able to give their own experience of using bus services and some of the frustrations that there may be with the current network. I think that, for young people in particular, there is a need—and I mentioned this earlier—to better market the bus network as an appropriate form of transport. We know that there are something in the region of 113,000 young people who are eligible for mytravelpass, which is the brand name for the young persons’ discounted bus travel scheme—113,000 young people aged 16, 17 and 18. Yet, to date, only 8,000 have applied for that valuable bus pass. Every opportunity—and I think any opportunity—that we get to flag up the existence of the pass we should take. But also I’m very keen that the sector itself should come together more in terms of marketing concessionary travel opportunities to travel seamlessly and to also ensure that there is integrated travel, not just for young people, but for everybody.

For young people in particular, there is a need for good quality, regular bus services, because, of course, many don't have the option of being able to drive, given the cost of insuring a private vehicle, but also many older people, as well as many young people—but I know, certainly insofar as my parents are concerned, I think you have a lack of confidence on the roads as a driver as you reach a certain age, and I think it's absolutely essential, therefore, that we maintain rural, as well as urban, services wherever and whenever possible and make them, again, as integrated as possible and ensure that there is the best possible quality of service.

Cabinet Secretary, you mentioned earlier that buses need to be clean, and the most important part of their cleanliness is the clean emissions. So, I just wondered what progress we’re making on that, because I notice that the UK Government has handed out grants of £30 million to 13 local authorities—and none of them was in Wales, as far as I'm aware—to invest in electric or hybrid buses. In Bristol, there's a bus service that has hybrid technology and which automatically switches to electric mode as soon as they get into the air quality management area, and that, for a place like Cardiff, would be really essential to try and combat the appalling air pollution that we've got. I would have thought that this was a major contribution for reducing our greenhouse gases by 40 per cent by 2020. So, I just wondered if you could say a bit about that and whether any of the larger companies that we have in Wales have so far invested in electric travel.

I'd like to thank Jenny Rathbone for her questions. I do believe that research and development in terms of green buses is not just an opportunity for us to lower or reduce our carbon footprint—research and development also offers us a huge economic opportunity, due to the fact that it is still an industry that is in its relative infancy. We still do not see across much of western Europe the sort of numbers of electric and hybrid buses that we will likely see in the next decade, and so there are still opportunities for Welsh companies to become more involved in the development of new forms of passenger transport that do contribute less in terms of our carbon footprint.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

The green bus fund, which was the fund mentioned by the Member, was, of course, open to bus providers and operators in Wales. Regretfully, no Welsh companies were successful in bidding, and no local authorities were successful in bidding. I am personally open to considering, however, a case for establishing a green bus fund in Wales, but within, of course, I have to say, a context of competing authorities and budgetary constraints, but I do recognise the need to reduce our carbon footprint and the role that public transport—greener public transport—can have in achieving this. Therefore, I am open to considering a case for a green bus fund in Wales.

I believe our bus policy advisory group, though, suggested that what they called a ‘better bus fund’, rather than a narrow green bus fund, would be most appropriate. So, there are, to some degree, conflicting beliefs about what would be a better way, or what sort of fund and the criteria for qualifying for capital resources are best for the economy and for passenger users, but it's very much something that I intend speaking with companies about at the summit in 2017.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.