We now move to questions from the party spokespeople to the Cabinet Secretary. First of all, UKIP spokesperson, Michelle Brown.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. What provision is the Cabinet Secretary putting into place to ensure that young people in Wales can focus on technical and vocational education without being diverted by subjects in which they may have no interest?

Thank you very much, Michelle, for your question. As you will know, the Welsh Government has embarked on an ambitious reform of our national curriculum, based on the recommendations of Professor Donaldson, which will provide for a broad range of educational experiences for all our children, ensuring that they are equipped to play a full part in our modern, working world.

Thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary. Schools in the private and independent sectors achieve better results than those in the state sectors. Are you trying to learn from best practice in the private and independent sectors?

I’d like to know on what basis the spokesperson for UKIP makes such a sweeping remark about the comparison relating to the achievement of our hard-working teachers and pupils in the state sector. I would reflect, Presiding Officer, on a conversation that I had just this summer with a parent celebrating the success of the GCSE results at the former John Beddoes High School—a school that had been put into special measures and now forms part of the Newtown collaboration—celebrating the fact that their GCSE results were better than those of the neighbouring private school in Lucton.

I note that the Cabinet Secretary has invited the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development to assess whether Welsh Government educational reforms are on track. I think this is a good idea, but isn’t this an admission that, after 17 years, the Welsh Government is out of its depth concerning education policy?

I would remind the UKIP Member that I have not been the Cabinet Secretary for 17 years, but I don’t believe that anybody in this Chamber, even those of us who have been here since the start, would agree that Welsh education is where we would want it to be. We can, and we must, do better. My invitation to ask the OECD to come and test the proposals that I have for driving up standards in Welsh schools is not an admission of failure; it is an admission of confidence that I believe that we’re on the right track and that things are getting better in Welsh education, but I want to test that against the very best international standards.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd.

Thank you, Llywydd. The UK Home Secretary has mentioned the intention of her Government to reduce the number of international students studying in the UK by introducing a number of new restrictions. While recognising the importance of international students to universities and, indeed, the wider Welsh economy, can I ask what assessment the Government has made of the impact of such changes on Wales, and particularly perhaps the proposal to link an application for a student visa with the quality of the institution that they make an application for—something that the leaders of Welsh universities have described as an entirely destructive blow to them?

Can I thank the Plaid Cymru spokesperson for raising what is a very, very important and serious issue for our higher education institutions? I regret very much the statements that have come from the UK Government with regard to international students. Public surveying demonstrates that the public regard international students as a very welcome addition to UK society. We have been very quick to ensure that we can provide clarity for EU students especially who were planning to come to study in Wales. They are very welcome, and I’m very concerned that the impact of any immigration policy at the UK level will impact on HE. I’m especially concerned that the Westminster Government has introduced a pilot scheme with regard to visas for Bath, Cambridge, Oxford and London without any consultation with either us as the Welsh Government or the Scottish Government, and I continue to pursue this point with my counterpart, Jo Johnson, in the Westminster Government. I will meet Mr Johnson shortly to discuss my concerns.

Thank you for that comprehensive response. I’m pleased to hear that a meeting is due to take place because statements such as the ones we’ve heard from the UK Government will undermine the status of the UK, and, of course, Wales, as a result, as regards being an attractive place for international students. We have seen, with the UCAS statistics last week in terms of early applications for the next academic year, that there’s been a reduction of a third, in terms of Welsh universities, in terms of EU students, and an 11 per cent fall in terms of international students. Now, you say that a meeting is to take place, but I would like to know more about what proactive steps you are taking to restore and to enhance Wales’s reputation and the reputation of the universities in Wales as a destination for international students. So, what programmes will you put in place to promote Wales as a destination in light of these statements from the UK Government?

Thank you. You will know, Llyr, that, as a result of the Brexit vote, I have established a higher education and further education working group to advise me on the impact of Brexit. We know that, for each institution, their exposure to international students is slightly different, and therefore potential drops in student numbers will affect different institutions in different ways. That group is looking at the moment to see what proactive plans we can put in place, not only to continue to develop relationships with EU students but also to look at markets that perhaps in the past we have not sought to market our universities to. We have good exposure often in the far east but, for instance, the North America market is a market that has not been particularly pursued by institutions, and we need to look to do more. We are working with Universities Wales and individual universities to see what we can do to support initiatives to market ourselves across the world because we have such a fantastic HE offer to make to international students.

I’m grateful again to you, and clearly your view is quite unambiguous, but I have to say that the Welsh Government’s position on free movement of people has been anything but consistent, of course. We know it was dropped from the Government’s principles for EU withdrawal over the summer recess. In September, the First Minister told us that the issue of free movement of people is something that will need to be examined, and, by 25 September, the Cabinet Secretary for the economy told the BBC

‘we cannot maintain free movement of people’.

At the same time, of course, free movement is one of the seven key areas of the Liberal Democrats’ plan for Britain in Europe, so maybe you could clarify for us today, Cabinet Secretary, whether you agree with the leader of your party on this, or whether you agree with the leader of your Government.

Who I do agree with, Llyr, is with the universities across Wales who tell me that international students are an important part of the wider successful future of a HE sector in Wales. I will leave no stone unturned to protect the interests of Welsh universities, and not to hinder their ability to attract students either from the EU or from the wider world. We have an excellent offer. They contribute much to our university sector, as do international lecturers who come to work in our institutions. I will leave no stone unturned to ensure that that important resource is not hindered by decisions that are being taken by the Government in Westminster.

The Conservatives’ spokesperson, Suzy Davies.

Thank you, once again, Llywydd. The Mudiad Meithrin lost £470,000 last year, and is going to close its crèche in the Old Library centre in Cardiff because of a lack of take-up of the service. Now, at the same time, I hear from the staff of the ‘cylchoedd’ themselves that they receive less than the living wage on a practical level because they can’t complete all of their preparatory work, clearing-up work and general admin within the time for which they are paid. Mudiad Meithrin is a fundamental part of the structure to develop the use of the Welsh language and to promote Welsh-medium education. Is the problem a poor financial model or do you need to look more closely at this to see what has gone wrong?

I hear the points that the Conservatives’ spokesperson has made. If she has any evidence that people aren’t getting the wage that they should, she’s free to write to me with details on that and I will be pleased to answer her. But, more generally, the Mudiad Meithrin, as you’ve suggested, is a vital part of our plans to expand and develop Welsh provision for early years children, and we have confidence that Mudiad Meithrin can continue to be a partner for the Welsh Government.

I’m delighted to hear that, and we also share your aim to develop the use of the Welsh language in daily life, even in areas that have traditionally been non-Welsh-speaking. A former Mudiad Meithrin worker has opened a bilingual bookshop in Caerphilly indoor market, where she hopes to develop coffee mornings, after school clubs and reading sessions to encourage the use of the language at a local level. The high street is an ideal place to actually encourage people to use their hidden Welsh language skills, even if the quality of language isn’t particularly strong. That’s the intention behind our Tipyn Bach, Tipyn Mwy scheme, which is slowly being introduced in my area, supported by the local menter iaith. How much additional funding in the draft budget will be used to secure the future for and get the best outcomes from Mudiad Meithrin and the mentrau iaith too?

We’re considering at present how we’re going to divvy up that money in the future, but I do agree with the points that have been made. Boosting the use of the Welsh language is just as important as learning or teaching Welsh. We do want to ensure that we are collaborating with the mentrau iaith to ensure that people have opportunities to use and speak and improve their Welsh, particularly in areas where Welsh isn’t used on the street per se. Also, we want to see Mudiad Meithrin being able to provide provision and opportunities for children who want Welsh-medium provision where that’s possible.

We have to find a balance between learning or teaching Welsh and learning or teaching through the medium of Welsh and the use of Welsh. The use of Welsh is something that we probably haven’t discussed enough recently, but certainly it’s going to be a key part and a central part of the strategy that we will publish next year.

Thank you for that response, too, but it’s not quite clear how much money will be provided to those two organisations. But I look forward to hearing more on that.

Mae gwneud yr achos dros sicrhau bod sgiliau iaith Gymraeg yn fantais yn yr economi hefyd yn nod rydym yn ei rannu. Cynhelir Sadwrn y Busnesau Bach ymhen mis, ac wrth ei hyrwyddo i fusnesau yn Abertawe yr wythnos diwethaf, roedd cwsmeriaid a staff yn dangos parodrwydd, yn betrus mewn rhai achosion, i wneud mwy o ddefnydd o’r Gymraeg yn eu busnesau. Mae adroddiad Comisiynydd y Gymraeg, y buom yn sôn amdano’n gynharach heddiw, yn nodi bod o leiaf 10 y cant o’r holl siaradwyr Cymraeg dros 30 oed wedi dysgu’r iaith y tu allan i addysg ffurfiol neu’r cartref. Felly, rwy’n meddwl tybed sut y gall sefydliadau fel y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach a siambrau masnach ddefnyddio eu cysylltiadau busnes i’ch helpu i gyrraedd eich targed o 1 filiwn o siaradwyr drwy’r gymuned fusnes.

I hope that they will be able to help us do that. In terms of your earlier question, we haven’t reached final decisions on some of those matters. Those matters are still being discussed within Government. I gave an undertaking to write to the committee when we have concluded those discussions this morning, and I’ll circulate that more widely to Members if that’s required.

In terms of the wider use of the Welsh language in small businesses and businesses, I think it’s fair to say that’s one area where we haven’t fully succeeded in the past, if you like. Certainly, I would like to see businesses feeling confident to enable their staff to use Welsh with customers to enable customers to feel comfortable opening conversations in Welsh. I think one of the things that we haven’t succeeded in doing in recent years has been promoting that easy comfortable casual use of the Welsh language. I think all too often people feel that, if their Welsh isn’t of a sufficient quality or standard, they can’t start a conversation in Welsh—they feel that they’ll be corrected or whatever. You may have those sort of concerns.

But I think one of the things that we need to do—and this is a point I’ve tried to make to the committee at an earlier hearing. This not simply the Government’s strategy, but something for the country and the community as a whole. That means all of us joining together to help people learn to speak Welsh, to help people use their Welsh, and to enable people to feel confident and comfortable using their Welsh, however strong, or less than strong, perhaps, that might be. So, I think that’s something we can all join together in and I look forward to businesses being an absolutely key and essential part of that.