2. What discussions has the Counsel General held with law officers regarding the Wales Bill? OAQ(5)0013(CG)[W]

The Member knows that this answer is subject to the established law officers’ convention. The Welsh Government is pressing for improvements to the Bill as it progresses in the House of Lords. You will understand the reasons behind the law officers’ convention, and, whereas the nature and content of such discussions remain confidential, I can inform the Member that I have visited Scotland and I have held a meeting with the Lord Advocate to discuss issues of mutual interest.

I thank the Counsel General for that response and for pushing the boundaries of the convention as far as he can within this Chamber. I’m not sure if he’s making a rod for his own back here, but far more questions are being posed to him now that he’s answering them, so that’s something to bear in mind. One thing that is true of the Wales Bill, it would appear, is that, unfortunately, we won’t have a separate legal jurisdiction—something that’s been requested over many years by Plaid Cymru and something that the First Minister, more recently, has also been pushing for. Accepting that, for the time being, it’s unlikely to happen, as the chief law officer in Wales to all intents and purposes, what are you doing now to deal with the fact that there will be no separate legal jurisdiction and that there will be problems and difficulties arising as a result of that? What’s he also doing to prepare with the legal profession in Wales over the next five or 10 years in order to build the case for a separate jurisdiction, because it will come in due time in a further Wales Bill?

The Member raises an extremely important point, and I probably have to concede that, at this stage, we are not going to get the establishment of the distinct Welsh jurisdiction that I’ve always thought was a reasonable transitional process. It was very interesting hearing the Lord Chief Justice’s evidence to the Justice Committee in Parliament, where he was asked about this issue. And, quite rightly, he said this was a political matter, but he did refer very specifically to the fact that there is a growing body of Welsh law, with significant legislation, such as the Housing (Wales) Act 2014, and other legislation. The issue of the jurisdiction poses increasing challenges. And, again, I think the net effect of all this is that there will, inevitably, be a distinct Welsh jurisdiction; I think it will, inevitably, lead to a separate jurisdiction at some stage in the future. The systems we have we can manage, for the time being, but we are clearly on a path to significant jurisdictional change.

I would just make the point that I’ve made a number of times, that there is a sort of mythology in the sort of status that has developed around the concept of the jurisdiction, which really bypasses the fact that the reason for wanting to create a jurisdictional basis for Welsh law is that it is, ultimately, about the efficient administration of justice. And that is why I think, inevitably, we are on that path, and we will be there. I take some comfort in the possibility of the establishment of a justice commission of some sort in the Wales Bill, and I think that will enable us to continue to look at that.

I think, also, developments in respect of the appointment of a president of tribunals and so on also gives an indication of the way in which the Welsh legislation is going, the administration of justice is going, and the way in which, ultimately, the jurisdictional issue is developing, and going.

Without trying to tempt the Counsel General to go into political spheres, would he agree with me that one of the major weaknesses in the debates that we’ve been involved with, particularly in the second House, on the Wales Bill, is the unwillingness of law officials and UK Government Ministers to reinforce and to standardise the Welsh constitution more clearly, for the people of Wales and for Welsh politicians, and, indeed, for all the citizens of Wales? Would it be possible for him, as our chief lawyer here in Wales, to hold direct discussions with law officers in the rest of the UK on the dire need to bring the Welsh constitution to be at least a little more similar in clarity to the Northern Irish and Scottish constitutions?

Thank you for that question. And, again, I suppose I ought to repeat that, although meetings with law officers do take place, the subject of those meetings, for obvious reasons, remains confidential, other than, obviously, there are matters of mutual interest to discuss.

He raises, certainly, a point that is raised in the Law Commission’s report, which very much deals with issues around codification, and, I think, deals with the points that you’re raising with regard to the need for a clear framework and accessibility in respect of Welsh legislation. That is something that is very much under review at the moment, and I would hope to be able to make a statement at some time in the future on this very point.