3. What initiatives are the Welsh Government working on to tackle climate change? OAQ(5)0316(FM)

They’re described in our climate change strategy. We are now developing further interventions that work towards our long-term target of an 80 per cent emissions reduction by 2050, while maximising economic, social and cultural benefits to Wales.

Seven years ago, First Minister, the One Wales Government laid out plans to achieve self-sufficiency with energy generation within 20 years. Now, one third of that time frame has already passed, and you’re still way off target, lagging way behind Scotland when it comes to generating energy from renewable sources. According to an energy trends report from September of this year, Scotland generates four times more renewable energy than we do here in Wales. First Minister, what has happened to your ambition on renewable energy and tackling climate change? Are you still aiming for that self-sufficiency?

Yes, the Scots have an advantage over us, which will no longer be there in 2018, where they control the consenting process of major energy projects, which we didn’t, and that was a major difficulty for us. Nothing over 50 MW on land, and nothing over 1 MW in the sea. In the North sea, of course, the Scots have been successful in terms of developing offshore wind in a way that we had no control over. So, we were not able to develop—even though we have places like Gwynt y Môr—renewable energy in the way that we would want to. But with 2018, and the new powers that will come to this place, that will then give us the opportunity to catch up with Scotland. Scotland, indeed, were further ahead than us because of the powers that they inherited back in 1999, including the powers they actually had over the grid, which is not something that we had, but will have in the future.

I note from the First Minister’s response that he will regard our capacity to generate green energy from the sea as a significant asset in tackling climate change for Wales as a tidal nation. As we await the decision of the Westminster Government in relation to the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, and welcome the first ever large-scale tidal energy farm off the coast of the Orkneys, does he join me in hoping that the remaining regulatory steps to be taken in Wales to proceed with the lagoon can be taken quickly so that we preserve our first-mover advantage? And will he agree to keep under review the 2011 marine renewable energy framework to make sure it keeps pace with technological and other change in the sector?

Absolutely, we’re well placed to take advantage of tidal energy particularly. We know that the Swansea bay tidal lagoon could create an estimated 1,900 jobs during construction and beyond. It is hugely important now that the UK Government makes that step of ensuring that what will be an energy source that will last 100 years or more will actually come into being and we can generate more energy more cheaply over 100 years, in terms of looking at it in that way, but also, of course, in a much cleaner and greener way.

Last week it was announced that Swansea is No. 13 in a list of the UK’s most congested towns and cities, and that apparently results in a drop in the city’s productivity, as well as polluting the air. Three years ago, Swansea council installed their nowcaster system to monitor air pollution levels, identify poor air quality and redirect traffic. It’s still not ready, despite the Welsh Government committing £100,000 of its money to that system. In aiming to tackle climate change, how will you collect carbon emissions data, how will you use those data and then how will you take to task any partners that you rely upon to help you get those data if they don’t come up with the goods?

The data were collected via a number of organisations, with Natural Resources Wales of course being one of them, so that we’re able to understand what the particulate levels are in some parts of Wales—not just the PM10s but the PM2.5s. We know that if traffic is idling, then that creates worse air quality—Brynglas tunnels is an example of that. We know that Swansea has challenges in the sense that its rail network disappeared pretty much in the 1960s and was never as integrated as that of Cardiff. Nevertheless, there are plans going forward now for a Swansea bay metro, which will do much in terms of enabling people to get out of their cars and therefore improve air quality.

Would the First Minister agree that, rather than spending tens of millions of pounds on wind turbines—which are said to be only around 35 per cent efficient, environmentally damaging and cost the very poorest in the country in increased energy costs, whilst, incidentally, putting large amounts of money into wealthy landowners’ pockets—it would be better to spend the money on home improvements, such as insulation, double-glazing and new boiler installation, which would not only be more efficient at cutting environmental pollution, but would also positively benefit the poor in society?

That was a cheap shot at the leader of the Welsh Conservatives I thought. [Laughter.] The Member is not aware, I know, but it is Christmas after all. The reality is that there’s no point in simply providing people with the means to make their homes more energy efficient. Yes, that’s important, but it’s not enough in and of itself. It’s hugely important that we continue to access energy reserves that have a mixture of energy. The Member is right to say that you can’t have everything done by wind power, but they certainly have a role to play, and they do in many, many economies around the world. He mentions being environmentally damaging—in coal-fired power stations, and the coal that is won to feed them, that is done in a very environmentally damaging way. Communities who live next door to opencast sites have something very strong to say about that. The reality is that everybody wants the lights to come on. That means that we have to have means of generating power. Wind is free. The infrastructure has to be built, that’s true. The tide will always be there as long as the moon is there. It makes absolute sense to me to harness these sources of powers that are not just clean and green, but actually, in the longer term, much cheaper.