I thank the Member for his many questions. I’ll do my best to respond to them. There isn’t much that the Member contributed that I don’t agree with him on. There are many things there that we align our thoughts around, apart from the term ‘co-production’, but we’ll probably always have that discussion in terms of how that’s worked. But the principle of what the Member says is absolutely right: this is about doing things with people as opposed to doing things to them. I said to Bethan Jenkins earlier that, as a Government, we can’t fix poverty; it’s got to be a collective response to work with communities and other public bodies to make sure we build the whole resilience around that.

There are many things that have an effect on poverty and the Member raised those issues around jobs, skills and growth. I work with my Cabinet colleagues, particularly Ken Skates, who is the lead member on poverty, but we all have a duty and a responsibility to deal with these issues. The two themes that I mentioned earlier on were about economic regeneration, giving people jobs, skills and confidence to be able to get into the workplace or volunteering market, and the other one is around well-being and following the principles of the WFG Act, and concentrating very specifically on tackling the issue of ACEs. I’m very grateful that David Melding does chair the looked-after children advisory group for me. It is a matter of fact that I would expect that most people who are fostered or living in a care environment, you would be able to stack the ACEs that those young people have developed. We know that if you experience four or more ACEs, it has a massive impact on your lifetime in the long term. It’s not a one-off issue. You can be repaired and you can be supported to move into a different space. I’m very keen to make sure that all of our programmes look at people and their need base, and that’s why, partly, I’ve started the review around Communities First.

It was a very localised area-based programme. I don’t accept the issue that we got this wrong, because Communities First have done some fantastic work across many constituencies across the length and breadth of Wales, following the principles of the Welsh index of multiple deprivation in terms of how that was assessed. But what I do recognise also is that there are areas of deprivation outside those areas, and we have to make sure we can flex programmes like Families First, like Flying Start, like Communities First—whatever that may look like in the new year—to make sure that we can have that full engagement with people who are in need so that we can support them.

In terms of the point around engagement and accountability, I expect public service boards and well-being plans to have a stake in this to understand their communities better, to understand where there are levels of deprivation and what we do about it collectively. It’s not about blame; it’s about responsibility and making sure that we all have a stake in managing the well-being of our communities. The well-being of future generations Act—I know that our views may differ here. The Member uses it an awful lot, and there are Members on the Plaid benches who use it, the well-being of future generations Act, as a stick to try and beat Government with. Actually, if we use the principles embedded in the Act properly, we can have a major shift in social demographics here in Wales, and actually it’s something that the UK could follow too. I think we’ve got a huge opportunity that would be wasted if we don’t get this right. I’m sure the commissioner and the auditor general will have something to say as we take this process through, but I welcome the Member’s contribution.

The sustainable livelihoods programme is one that I have noted. I’m not saying that I’ve dismissed the programme; what I’m saying is that we’ve got many programmes that have great effect, and I’ve got to look at maximum impact. It will be something that I will give further consideration to as I move forward with understanding what we take forward in terms of the space of Communities First, and what that looks like in the future.