Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:27 pm on 13 December 2016.
Can I just start by saying I’ve learnt something that the laws of Hywel Dda are dated to 962, and Dai also mentioned this, but Hywel died in 950? But I suppose it took the monks of Whitland a little while to produce the manuscript. But, anyway, it does seem that our law making and dealing with our fundamental constitutional law takes a little while, so perhaps I should bear that in mind. Can I welcome the statement and also the Law Commission’s report ‘Form and Accessibility of the Law Applicable in Wales’? I look forward to a fuller response to that report, which is now entangled in the pilot project, it seems to me, if I’ve inferred, from what the Counsel General said, correctly. But when that response comes more comprehensively, I think it would be very useful, as it’s an excellent report in my view.
Can I say that I do agree that we now have a window of opportunity to consolidate and even codify much of Welsh law? I do regard consolidation as highly desirable, but the other end of that virtuous spectrum is full codification, which indeed would make us unique in the British isles and I think would be a shining example in the spirit of Hywel Dda in many ways. It would certainly make the law clearer and more accessible. We have that window because we’re a new institution, although we’re now in our fifth Assembly. Of course, it’s only the second one, effectively, with law-making powers. But this opportunity won’t last forever, so I do welcome the initiative you are taking.
I commend what Dai Lloyd said about bilingual law making. I think this is sometimes overlooked. When you legislate bilingually you can illuminate legal principles better in one language than in another sometimes, so they need to work effectively together. It is certainly not a sophisticated form of translation; it really is something that goes together and feeds off intellectual process in both our linguistic traditions. Can I just say that the Conservative group will be very keen and willing to co-operate in this much-needed reform?
Can I just test you, then, on how this is going to be taken forward? The feasibility of consolidation is now to be evaluated in a pilot. You say that that will conclude next year, presumably towards the end of the year, but can I urge you to keep to that tight timetable because we will be well into this fifth Assembly term then? And I would like to know how the pilot is going to operate. Will it take a piece of impending legislation and actually present it in a consolidated fashion? We missed opportunity after opportunity in the fourth Assembly—I think most egregiously, the heritage Act—and so I do hope that we could come up with a living example of a consolidated Welsh Bill, or, as it seemed from your statement, we could also draw the conclusion that you’re just going to embark on a retrospective exercise to see, really, what would be required with the existing body of law. So, I would urge you to actually produce a consolidated Bill for this Assembly to consider; I think that would be most useful.
In evaluating the pilot, what measures will be key—cost, efficiency, efficacy or capacity? I’m sure we need to know where our strengths lie, where they need to be developed and where it would be in the interest of Welsh society to develop them. For instance, a more effective legal profession with greater high-level capacity in Wales, that seems to me something that would be highly desirable. You commended the Law Commission, but you didn’t say how they might co-operate in all this because, of course, they’re a key resource in producing consolidated legislation. I think it’s something that you need perhaps to bring to the Assembly’s attention.
Then, can I just ask: what is the likely outcome if we, as I’m sure we all hope, believe these objectives are feasible? Are you then going to produce a timetable for major areas of law to be consolidated, because that will obviously take, I don’t know, a five or 10-year programme? But there will be times in the Assembly when we will have a particularly useful period to consolidate less controversial areas of law, perhaps early in a new Assembly term when there’s often not much legislation before us. That’s a key opportunity, I think.
Can I just also say, Llywydd, that it’s clear that our own procedures—the legislature’s procedures here in the Assembly—will also have to be adapted, and we will be very co-operative in this? We will need a fairly nuanced set of procedures, I think: consolidation where there are no changes to the law, just a clearer statement, I think they can be fairly express procedures; consolidation with some non-controversial reform, we wouldn’t want the full process of scrutiny necessarily on non-controversial reforms—for instance, where the law is made more accessible by being less archaic, those sorts of reforms probably don’t need the full legislative process; and then consolidation that also requires reform in some controversial areas will require very particular attention, and may need to be separated out of a large statute so that it can get full scrutiny. Thank you very much.