Well, I do not believe that the American Government will want to have a free-trade agreement with anybody that is anything other than very, very positive for the US and negative for the other party to the agreement. Donald Trump has said he wants to tear up the trans-Pacific partnership. He wants to tear up the North American free trade agreement and have an agreement with the UK. Does that mean, then, that we will see beef full of hormones coming into the UK market and undercutting our Welsh beef farmers? Does it mean that we will see, for example—and his party was campaigning against TTIP, saying that it was a bad deal—does this mean that, if TTIP was back on the table, he would now support it? Would the party now support it? Does it mean, for example, that the UK will collapse at the knees if the US Government says, ‘You must open up your public services to privatisation’? Because that’s what they’ll press for.

I have to say that I am in favour of good relations with the US. Of course I am. I’m in favour of good relations with all countries. But I am sometimes touched by the sweet naivety of the leader of UKIP and his fellow traveller, the leader of the Welsh Conservatives, when they think the world will be an easy place and that free-trade agreements are easy to negotiate. They are not. The free-trade agreement between the EU and Greenland took three years, and that was just about fish. The agreement with Canada was seven years. Other agreements take 10 years.

I’ve looked at the list of tariffs that are involved. I mean, there are tariffs on hats and umbrellas, for goodness’ sake. Agriculture is always excluded from free-trade agreements. Almost always. It’s not there with Canada, it’s not there between Norway and the EU. The agricultural tariff is nearly 50 per cent. Welsh farmers cannot live with a tariff on Welsh lamb and Welsh beef of 50 per cent, and anybody who thinks that they can is letting Welsh farmers down.