Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:25 pm on 17 January 2017.
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I thank Nick Ramsay for his questions. I’ve said regularly in this Chamber, during the period that we were negotiating the fiscal framework, and Mr Ramsay would ask me questions about it here, that I would refer to his interest and to the interest of other Members during my discussions with the Chief Secretary. And it’s always been a useful tool for me that the Chief Secretary knew that Members right across this Chamber were keeping a very careful eye on the way that those negotiations were being conducted.
I’ll turn to his specific questions. Yes, I can confirm that this is a permanent agreement. The breakthrough that Jane Hutt secured in getting the agreement to the principle of a funding floor was to last for the period of one spending review. This is now to be a permanent feature of the arrangement. Our income tax base, as Nick Ramsay said—it’s one of the very important parts of the framework that we are only exposed to the element of income tax that is actually devolved. That’s 10p of the basic higher and additional rates. That takes account of the relative strength of the Welsh tax base in each band—we have more taxpayers in the basic band; we have fewer, comparatively, in the higher and additional rates bands—and this means that our budget is exposed to less risk of differential growth at the top of the income distribution. That ability to negotiate a genuine comparator, but fits with the nature of Welsh income tax payers, is a very important part of this framework.
The rates of income tax will indeed come to Wales from April 2019. I won’t be able to say anything significant about them until much closer to the time. We have taken the approach in relation to LTTA and to landfill disposals tax that it’s important in the very earliest periods to make sure that the system we have is working well and is recognisable to those whose job it is to make it operate. I have no doubt that those arguments will be influential when we come to April 2019 as well.
Nick Ramsay drew attention to the issue of population change. Population is a very important element in the fiscal framework. In the Scottish version, the risks in relation to population are taken by the UK Government. In our framework, the risks are taken by us in Wales. That is partly because we are in very different positions. Population in Scotland at the turn of this century was 3 per cent lower than it had been 30 years earlier, while the populations in both Wales and England were 6 per cent higher. Over the last decade, the population has increased in both Wales and Scotland, but the population of Wales has grown faster than the Scottish population, and the reasons for growth are different. In the last 10 years, net international migration has accounted for over 50 per cent of population growth in England; over 60 per cent of population growth in Scotland; but less than 40 per cent in Wales. It means that we are far less exposed to a slow-down in international migration in the post-Brexit period.
Nick Ramsay asked about the single Welsh reserve. It is a very important part of the package as a whole. Is there a cap on it? Yes, there is—it’s £500 million—and there’s a cap on the drawdown from it as well. We will be able to draw in, in any single year, £125 million-worth of revenue, and that compares to £75 million of revenue that we’re able to carry forward under current arrangements, and we’ll be able to draw down £50 million-worth of capital, compared to £20 million under current arrangements. I’ve had to recognise, in my discussions with the Chief Secretary, that he has a responsibility to manage the UK’s budget in the round, and that he has to have some parameters that he can rely on in doing that. I think that the Welsh reserve is at a level that will work for Wales, and that the annual drawdowns will be sufficient to meet our needs.
Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, to the review process. The review process allows both Governments, independently, to call for a full review of arrangements, once, in the Welsh Government’s case, during an Assembly term, and once, in the UK Government’s case, in a parliamentary term, but that does not preclude agreement on further reviews in that time frame, should something unexpected emerge and be necessary. But the equal ability, and independent ability, to require a review is a very important aspect of the framework and an advance on anything we have at the moment.