Just before Christmas, I convened a meeting in my constituency in Neath of players in the local economy. I had the further education college there. In fact, they hosted the event and it was hosted very beautifully and very effectively buy them, so I thank them for that. We also had universities, businesses in the local economy and unions to come together to discuss what we wanted from a regional perspective from the Welsh Government’s economic strategy. But one of the issues that came out in the discussion was a call for a clear, integrated strategy for further education, skills training, workplace learning, adult learning and HE—a holistic approach to all those modes of education—and as part of that, the development of a clear pathway between vocational and academic education and in the workplace through from pre-apprenticeship to high-level skills and degrees. Confidence and hope was expressed that the Hazelkorn proposals at that point would provide a foundation for a much more integrated approach than has been able to be in place to date.

Echoing the point that a number of speakers have made, there were calls to encourage students not just to think in terms of a higher education route. I think that’s about actually giving equal validity to both vocational and academic higher education. But it goes beyond, I think, the question of parity of esteem: it should at least be that. But there’s also a scenario where someone feels they may flourish in higher education, but actually the better option for their particular career choice isn’t higher education, despite the fact that they might very well do excellently at university. Until we get to that sense of genuineness of approach—