Item 5 is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the establishment of the national endowment for music. I call on Kirsty Williams to make the statement.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I believe that all young people, no matter what their background, should have the opportunity to develop their talents and skills through music. I am pleased that, alongside the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, we are announcing £1 million-worth of investment to support the establishment of a national endowment for music. An initial contribution will be provided to the Arts Council of Wales to cover the set-up costs. A further contribution will then be made to the seed fund of the endowment once it is in place, taking the total to £1 million.

This work represents the joined-up approach that we are taking to ensure that music opportunities continue to be available to all young people, and are enhanced in the future. Over the coming weeks, the arts council will begin the process of establishing the endowment, including assembling a steering group to inform the scope, use and timings for the eventual operation of this fund. Building up the fund to a level where the annual interest will be sufficient to make grants will, of course, take some time. It will rely on attracting contributions from a variety of public and private sources. This, therefore, is an initiative for the medium and long term.

Deputy Presiding Officer, we are a nation with a rich musical heritage. If you were to ask people around the world to name things that they associate with Wales, their list would undoubtedly involve music. From our traditional choirs to musicians who perform across the world, Wales truly punches well above its weight. Although, of course, we must guard against viewing our musical heritage as something of a cliché, our inheritance, to resonate down the generations, is one of variety and vitality: the experimentalism of John Cale; the originality of the Super Furry Animals; the accessibility of Ivor Novello; or the modernity of Kizzy Crawford and Marina and the Diamonds.

Yet music tuition isn’t just about performance. It promotes a range of positive outcomes that support the four purposes at the core of our new curriculum that will drive up standards in our schools. We want our young people to grow into healthy, confident individuals, enterprising, creative contributors, ambitious, capable learners and ethical, informed citizens. Learning to sing or play a musical instrument helps our children cultivate discipline and perseverance. It teaches that practice does indeed make perfect and it helps children build confidence and discover what inspires them.

We all want an education system that gives learners the chance to engage in these valuable experiences. Through the expansion and extension of the pupil deprivation grant, schools are being better equipped to provide musical experiences to their learners, which is especially important for those many children who perhaps would not be able to afford to participate in cultural activities.

This complements the aims of the ‘Creative learning through the arts’ plan, a joint Welsh Government and arts council programme investing £20 million in schools to promote and support creative teaching and learning. This programme also supports schools to develop practice that will contribute to the new curriculum, helping our young people to become enterprising, creative contributors.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

So what is the purpose of all of this? Music is an enrichment activity that allows us to express ourselves personally and to share in our collective culture. As Longfellow said,

‘Music is the universal language of mankind’.

The national endowment for music is our long-term and sustainable approach to funding. Rather than replacing existing music services, it is designed to enhance them. Although it will take time to build the fund into the robust and productive endowment that Wales needs and deserves, I am keen that we push forward so that this can happen at the soonest possible opportunity. The national endowment for music was a recommendation of the music services task and finish group, and I would like to thank the members of that group for their hard work and for providing and producing such a valuable report. The endowment will be a genuinely innovative, made-in-Wales, groundbreaking initiative, and I therefore call upon Members here to support us in exploring how best to target this fund, to identify areas of need and help us build a successful endowment that can provide for young people for years to come.

May I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement? Clearly, it is something that we are more than happy to support in terms of creating this national endowment for music. As you say, music can give people expressive experiences. It can give them a sense of empowerment. It certainly enhances people’s confidence and, as you’ve already acknowledged, there is an educational benefit as well as a well-being benefit. It’s an important element when it comes to strengthening mental health, and so on and so forth. So, I warmly welcome the fact that this endowment is to be established and that this statement—although it was made public previously—has been made this afternoon.

Just a few questions on practicalities. You say that this is a joint initiative with the Cabinet Secretary for the economy. You talk of £1 million. Is there a financial contribution coming from the Cabinet Secretary for the economy’s department, and if so, what is that? And from what budget within your own department will this funding come from? Do you anticipate that you will be contributing annually to this endowment, or are you looking no further than that £1 million and expecting the rest—you talk of a target of £20 million—to be contributed by others? And by when do you expect that £20 million to be in place? Clearly, you expect this to be paying out by 2020. Would you expect that that £20 million will be in place by then?

Now, clearly, your forecasts are for the medium term and long term in terms of seeing this endowment fully operational, but there is pressure today on many of these services. It would be regrettable to lose much of the provision that currently exists in this area whilst waiting to get to that point where this endowment becomes operational. So, I would like to hear from you what your intentions are in terms of ensuring that the current services remain sustainable in the meantime. Because having lost that infrastructure, the task of strengthening services will be so much greater.

I don’t know whether you’re aware of the Denbighshire Music Co-operative, where a number of the providers, in the face of the cuts that have been made, have come together to create a co-operative initiative that will ensure provision for our schools. I think that that will be a model that you and those involved with this endowment should look at, and perhaps you could tell us whether that’s the kind of approach that you would like to see being supported by this endowment.

Also, you referred, towards the end of your statement, to the music services task and finish group and that there were 15 recommendations—and this is one of them, now being implemented. Perhaps, not necessarily now, you could give us a written update at some point of where the rest of the recommendations are in terms of progress made against them, so that we can be clear on the broader work ongoing in terms of taking this agenda forward.

I thank you, Llŷr, for your comments and questions this afternoon and for your welcome of the establishment of the endowment. This is, indeed, a joint initiative between myself and my colleague, and the split is 50-50: 50 per cent, or £500,000, from myself, and the same from my colleague. I have to say that, at present, we have no plans to add additionally. The task and finish group, as you will be aware, recommended that there should be a feasibility study into the possibility of setting up an endowment. Work was carried out previously with regard to that, and I was very keen, as was my colleague Ken Skates, to be able to make progress on that recommendation as quickly as possible. The purpose of the Government’s funding is: (1) to enable the arts council to set up the fund—so, there is somebody needed to find that resource so that the fund could initially be set up—and then the additional money is there as an incentive and a contribution to having the initial investment into the fund, and a demonstration to others that the fund exists. Hopefully, we will be able to attract other investment from both public and private sector sources as we go forward.

Our ability to be able to make payments from the endowment will indeed be subject to how quickly we can raise the capital needed. I would love to be in a position that we can start making grants from 2020, but it is dependent on how quickly we can grow the fund into a sizable lump sum that will then allow the interest to be made. It’s too early, Llŷr, at this stage to say whether the co-operative that you talked of would be subject to funding. That is for the steering group that we anticipate the arts council will set up. So, it’s not just the mechanics of actually setting up the fund but actually setting up a steering group that will look at all these issues—identifying need and the kind of projects that we feel would be worthy of being funded. That kind of co-operative approach I think has demonstrated the commitment of people on the ground to try and overcome some of the undoubtedly—and I don’t want to shy away from this at all—real challenges that music services in schools have faced. There have been groups such as the one you mentioned—and I am familiar in my own constituency with the South Powys Youth Music organisation—which have really worked very, very hard to address the gaps and to find new ways around the very difficult financial situation to continue to provide those opportunities for young people. I would want to take this opportunity to applaud groups, like the one you mentioned and others, that are working so creatively to create these opportunities for people.

With regard to the task and finish group, as I said in my statement, this was a recommendation from the group. The majority of the recommendations from that group were for local government to take forward. Civil servants here in my department and in Ken Skates’s department continue to work very closely with the WLGA and local authorities around moving forward on those recommendations. I would be more than happy for my colleague—I’m sure he would be more than happy to provide a written update on those because that falls under his portfolio. I’m sure that that would not be a problem at all.

Can I also thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement? I think it is disappointing, of course, that the announcement was made to the media yesterday rather than in this Chamber. But we are having a statement today, and at least that gives us an opportunity to ask you some questions about the plans that you have announced. I want to welcome the establishment of the endowment. It is a key recommendation that has been taken forward and I think it’s important that we put on record today the fact that, very often, we’re talking a lot about the STEM subjects—we’re talking about maths, we’re talking about English, we’re talking about science, we’re talking about Welsh—but we ignore the arts at our peril. I think it’s really important that we do more for the arts here in Wales, and that’s why I want this endowment fund to be a success and to grow. I wonder what discussions you have had with potential philanthropic sources to expand this fund rapidly, so that it can begin to get some cash out of the door and into people’s pockets, in order to support them in the development of the arts in their own lives.

I think, also, I am a little disappointed, or perhaps confused, as to the timing of the announcement, because of the ongoing work of the committee, which is looking at some of the aspects of music provision at the moment, and I think that, if we’re going to see a sort of joined-up working in this Assembly between the National Assembly and the Government, it is important that, sometimes, Ministers hold back from making announcements when there are useful discussions actually already taking place. I noted that, just a few weeks ago, in the culture committee, Dr Owain Arwel Hughes was talking about music, and he was saying that we're at this crisis point at the moment here in Wales, where investment is needed if we’re going to deliver the sorts of success that you mentioned we've had historically. Do you agree with Owain Arwel Hughes’s analysis that we are in a bit of a crisis when it comes to music education in Wales? I noted that the uptake of students taking music at GCSE and A-level, for example, seems to suggest that there has been an exodus from music examinations. We've seen a fall of 25 per cent in people taking music at GCSE, and 35 per cent taking music to A-level. Is that a concern to the Cabinet Secretary, and what action specifically will you take in order to address the decline that we've seen in people taking up music as a GCSE and to A-level?

Can you also tell us, in terms of the taking forward of those task and finish group recommendations, you mentioned in your response to Llŷr that many of those recommendations are the responsibility of local government. I appreciate and understand that that was the case, but, as has been the case on so many occasions here in the National Assembly, it often takes the leadership of the Welsh Government in order to realise those things, even when there are recommendations made to 22 different local authorities, all very often with different approaches to things. So, I wonder, are you going to show some leadership on this, not just in terms of establishing this fund, but in terms of taking forward your role in leadership across Wales in terms of education to make sure that music isn't overlooked in the future? And what discussion have you had with Professor Donaldson to ensure that music does feature within the new curriculum that is being developed? It's not been something that I've heard a great deal about in terms of the work of the pioneer schools, for example, but I'm sure that there is work going on and perhaps you can tell us a little bit about that.

You will know also that the culture committee's inquiry has been looking at examples in Scotland and England in terms of their music education provision, and that, in both of those nations, there's been an element of ring fencing of funding that has been made available to local education authorities, and that there has been some innovation in the way that musical instruments have been procured and that other services have been delivered via hubs coming together. I wonder what discussion you have had with colleagues, or your officials may have had with colleagues, over the border in England and up in Scotland, about those arrangements and what Wales might usefully learn from them. And can you also tell us what role the regional consortia might have in delivering improvements in music education and access to music education in the future? I didn't hear any reference to the regional consortia at all in your statement, and I think it is important that we understand what their role might be in future arrangements. So, perhaps you can just share a little bit about your thoughts on that. Thank you.

Thank you, Darren, for the series of questions and your welcoming of the principle of setting up the endowment. The timing of this announcement is in no way meant to be disrespectful of the work of the committee. I understand that work came to a close on 4 February, but, with all due respect to the committee, we've already had a report that has recommended the establishment of this endowment. I don't need another report to tell me I need to establish the endowment; what we need to do is to get on with establishing the endowment, which is what I'm doing today. But, of course, I will be hugely interested to hear from the committee its recommendations and its findings, and Cabinet colleagues and I will reflect on that in how we take this agenda forward. But, as I’ve said, we've already had a recommendation that this needs to happen, which is why we are doing it.

With regard to GSCE music, it’s also interesting to note that there has been a drop in the number of students taking GCSE drama also, so there is undoubtedly an issue around children, for whatever reason, making different decisions about the subjects that they take. But you’re absolutely right—a balanced education is one that, yes, pays due regard to maths and English and science, but also one that, as a historian, I know myself pays attention to the humanities as well as creative endeavours. One of the things that we have done in relation to GCSE choices is that schools told me that the emphasis on the capped nine was making them narrow their curriculum and was actually making it more and more predictable to choose these subjects. As you know, we will not be using capped nine as the sole, high-stakes accountability measures in schools, thus allowing them to move away from that. So, that’s one of the practical things that we are trying to do to ensure that our curriculum doesn’t narrow in a way that makes it more difficult for children to take either GCSE music or GCSE drama, because I want our children to have the broadest range and the widest range of education experiences possible. Of course, that is the absolute philosophy behind our Donaldson curriculum reforms.

With regard to that, you’ll be aware, Darren, that I mentioned in my statement the role of the creative schools. So, we have a network of creative schools that are supporting us in the development of new approaches to creative education. They’re also then forming part of the area of learning experience groups that are looking at the frameworks for individual areas of learning experience for the curriculum, and as I mentioned in my statement, we have a multimillion pound fund in conjunction with the arts council to be able to use different ways, and creativity, to engage within the curriculum. So, for instance, literacy can be a particular issue for boys, and engaging young boys in literacy and writing can be a challenge. Through our work with the arts council, schools are being able to bring in lead practitioners, and in some schools they’ve employed a rap artist, and actually by the use of rap music, and writing music and lyrics of that kind, it has got young men thinking about writing as well as performing. That’s a way of engaging children in literacy in a way perhaps they wouldn’t.

So, we’re looking at creative learning in its broadest possible sense. I am very aware of what was said to the committee about the state of the music education that there is. I wouldn’t describe it as a crisis, but I would also recognise the evidence that was given by Karl Napieralla about the difficulties of unpicking a situation where we have seen lots and lots of money being delegated to schools and individual schools choosing how to use those resources in a way that meets their children’s needs. Last week, I was in Woodlands Community Primary School—that’s in Cwmbran, a deprived part of Cwmbran—where they used that resource to bring in professional musicians to the school to work with children. On that day, it happened to be samba that they were listening to and participating in, and enjoying it they were, too. The school has made that decision, unpicking that resource back out of the school. But I would expect schools and local authorities to work creatively together to address needs within their community.

I’ve also been greatly cheered by the use of the pupil deprivation grant. So, Cefn Hengoed Community School in Swansea uses their pupil deprivation grant to pay for membership of the local youth orchestra, because for some of those children, membership of the youth orchestra may be beyond them. So, they use some of that resource to ensure that their children get to be a part of the youth orchestra, as well as the local drama group. So, it’s a creative use of that money to ensure that those children get access to those activities that would not be available to them in any other way. But our expectation on local authorities is to work collaboratively to address these points.

We are to ensure leadership by the establishment of this fund, but, Darren, at some stage we live in a system that has local government, and local government have to take their responsibility seriously. If Welsh Government keeps doing things because local government doesn’t do it, it does beg the question: why have we got local government? It is quite clear they have a responsibility in this area, and as I said earlier, my officials are working with them to ensure that they’re taking forward the recommendations in the task and finish group.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I welcome the announcement of the endowment fund for music that you’ve made today. I’m very supportive of any constructive ways that we can improve music tuition in schools and bring more children and young people into enjoying and loving and playing and taking part in music. I would like to ask you for some detail, though.

How long do you think that it will take before the fund is of a sufficient size to support the award of grants? Welsh Government is putting the seed money in, but how will you work to promote it among public and private organisations to encourage them to contribute to the fund? Extending the pupil deprivation grant is all very well and good, but a young person may not be entitled to free school meals and yet buying an instrument and paying for tuition may well be out of their parents’ grasp. How does the Cabinet Secretary propose to help such young people?

I note that the Cabinet Secretary boasts that £20 million is being spent on the Welsh Government’s creative learning though the arts plan. However, this plan seems to cover more than music. So, how much of that £20 million is being spent on music and actually going into music provision? What measures are you going to be introducing to ensure that funding intended to support music in schools is actually spent on music in schools?

Young people should be able to continue their music studies if they wish after school, particularly those young people who are musically gifted. How is the Welsh Government supporting music in the community so that people can continue with their music once they leave school? It’s great to teach young people the skills of how to play an instrument and to learn a love of music, but we don’t really want to kill it dead right at the end of school age. We want to be able to encourage people to continue that and to bring their music into the community. So, how are you going to be supporting music in the community so that people can continue with their music once they leave school?

The task and finish group made a number of recommendations around terms and conditions of service provision, cost of music provision, communication of local authority preferred delivery model, et cetera. How is the Cabinet Secretary addressing the problems and issues outlined in the report of the task and finish group?

And then, finally, I do totally support your objective to improve access to music in schools. This fund, hopefully, will go a way to support that. But, there really isn’t any substitute for qualified and passionate music tuition in schools themselves. Therefore, what measures are you going to be taking to encourage trainee teachers to study music education at teacher training level and to encourage musically gifted people into the teaching profession in the first place? Thank you.

Thank you, Michelle, for your questions. With regard to philanthropy—and I think it was Darren who raised this also, and it was remiss of me not to have addressed that—a great deal of work has been done, in conjunction with the arts council, looking at opportunities. We have to get better at philanthropy. There are many organisations that we can be looking to, and individuals, to support this work. We’ve got to get better as a nation. I hope that, by creating this opportunity, it will be an easy opportunity for people to do that. But the establishment of the steering group by the arts council will have people who are particularly qualified in this particular area to give advice about how we can make the most of these opportunities. I wouldn’t hold up my hand to be an expert in this area, and the whole point of having a steering group is that we can rely on people who do know how to do this to be part of that group to maximise the opportunities of the fund being successful. The quicker we can find them, the more quickly we can get money out of the door to support the work that you and I both want to see in our communities.

Creative learning through the arts, as you said, is a £20 million programme. We do not specify that that has to be spent on music. It is a general arts programme and it is very much led by the individual schools. So, for instance, the programme has a number of different themes. We’ve talked about lead practitioners going into schools. Again, that is a choice for the individual school, it’s not for me to dictate. It also has a go-and-see element to it. So, if people actually want to go and see a live production, whether that be drama, music or whether they want to take their children to an art gallery, there’s a go-and-see element to it. So, individual schools again, teachers, can identify what they feel will be of benefit to their pupils the most and apply to the arts council for a grant so people can actually go to physically see something and hopefully be inspired by that and take it back to the classroom.

Music in the community actually falls under the auspices of my colleague Ken Skates, but you’re absolutely right, we need to give children the confidence and a love of music so it’s not just something they do in school time, but actually it’s something that they do out of school. That’s why organisations like the ones that Llŷr described, South Powys Youth Music, which put on fantastic concerts, from the very youngest pupils right through to those just about to go off to university—. But also you see it happening in unexpected ways. Last week was the annual drama festival of Brecknock Federation of Young Farmers Clubs, at which, every night for a week—and this week it’s Radnor’s drama festival—every night, last week on a stage in Brecon and this week on a stage in Llandrindod, we will have young people singing, dancing, playing musical instruments and being very proud of that, and I think that’s one of the big challenges.

There will always be a cohort of children who are very passionate about their music and want to go on to the stage, but actually what do we do with slightly reticent teenagers who get to that age when they want to drop their music, where it’s not seen to be cool anymore? And I know, because I’ve got one in my own family. The frustration of getting to grade 5 flute and violin and, all of a sudden, ‘It’s not cool, I don’t want to be seen to be doing that anymore.’ So there’s a job of work to be done to really enthuse children and demonstrate, and that’s why the fund and music education needs to be music education in the round, not just about classical music, but actually addressing music in a way that is relevant for children and giving them the desire to be a part of it.

On teaching, you’re right, we do provide courses on PGCE, and you will know that we are reviewing all our incentives and the way in which we recruit to that course. I don’t have the figures for music in front of me, but I can tell you that applications for PGCE courses for this year are up on where they were last year—generally and in most subjects, and that’s encouraging.

Firstly, I suppose I should declare an interest in this topic, as a musician. I was born on a council estate and accessed the world of professional music via state provision and its exemplary county and national youth orchestras. I was a recipient of a thriving music support service that provided access to instrumental tuition, not just to me as a clarinettist, but to members of my family who went on to play for renowned world-class orchestras. And I became a music teacher and visiting lecturer, and I’m still indebted for those opportunities; I would not otherwise have had them. I place a great value personally on those institutions, organisations and tuition structures—the engines that gave me the skills as a working-class child that I needed to succeed in my chosen career path.

I wish to pay tribute also to the hard work of the task and finish group members on the music services and youth arts review bodies. I wish to welcome very much the potential for the co-operative approach that was mooted earlier, and I also welcome the innovative reforms and initiatives that this Labour Government has introduced to strengthen the arts in Wales: constructive and ambitious reforms, such as Donaldson’s creative ‘Successful Futures’ curriculum, which has been mentioned, to enrich classroom and individual access to the arts curriculum; the pioneer creative schools and pathways co-ordinators and the lead practitioners; the ambitious artists in schools projects; the co-constructed funding initiatives, such as the ‘Creative Learning through the Arts’ action plan, which is collaboratively groundbreaking, and is a far-reaching collaboration between Welsh Government and the Wales arts council and, as has been stated, to the tune of £20 million to broaden arts access; and also the considerable increases to the pupil deprivation grant for our most vulnerable and early years pupils, who are better able to access opportunity through an enriched arts-based curriculum. So, as such, I want to thank the Cabinet Secretary for Education and the Cabinet Secretary for economy, infrastructure and skills for their collaboration around this important matter.

I, indeed, welcome the announcement today of the music fund for Wales. It is, indeed, a unique and innovative provision, and it’s a resource for Wales in a time of great austerity, passported to Wales from unprecedented cuts to the Welsh block grant and subsequent difficult times for local government. It is right that we retain, sustain and grow our nation as the land of song and that we are ambitious about our place in the global arts world and as a land of culture, and as a creative, industrial, economic powerhouse.

Further to my cross-party statement of opinion, which is OPIN-2016-0026, which was cross-party signed, I wish to ask the Cabinet Secretary if she would agree with me and other esteemed arts organisations and Welsh musicians that this welcomed music endowment fund is, firstly, well placed to broaden access of opportunity to all, and, secondly, is a welcome spoke in the wheel to the development of a national music performance strategy, a national music performance plan for Wales, and a subsequent core offer. Thank you.

Presiding Officer, could I thank Rhianon Passmore for her comments and questions and for constantly badgering me on this subject since she was elected to this place? I’m always in awe of people who have talent in this area. I declare that I have none whatsoever. So, people like Rhianon who can play the clarinet maybe could get together with Bethan and her viola and Mick here and his mandolin and his tin whistle—he can do the tin whistle too. And the Presiding Officer, I think, from time to time, sings. So, perhaps we could use the opportunity to highlight the talents that we have here and perhaps we could have a fundraising concert made up of contributions from Assembly Members, the proceeds of which could go into the endowment, because we obviously have very talented people in the Chamber.

Rhianon, I want children to have the experiences and the opportunities that you had and that is proving more and more difficult. But that’s why we encourage schools to use their PDG for those children from a more deprived background, creatively, to make sure that they have their instrumental opportunities that perhaps their better-off counterparts would enjoy, because we don’t want people’s talents to be stifled by a lack of opportunity in this way. You’re quite right: this is only a spoke in the wheel. This is not the answer. This programme and the resources that hopefully will come from the endowment are there to enhance, rather than replace, what should be happening. It cannot be the silver bullet, but it is a way of ensuring that more can be done for children and young people than has previously been able to be done and I thank you for your support and your commitment to this agenda.

I’m just responding as Chair of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee in the context—as mentioned by Darren Miller earlier—of the inquiry we’re conducting into music in education, not because we as AMs wanted to do it, but because the public, through an opinion poll that we set up, decided for us that we should look at this issue because, despite the many task and finish groups, many of the decisions have been delayed and many of the actions on these issues have not come to fruition. I will say that we welcome this investment, but I think, as has been mentioned earlier, you cannot look at this endowment fund in isolation as a solution to local authority-run services. I think that’s where, potentially, we needed to have seen a more holistic statement here today. Not taking away from the fact that this is necessary, but, minded of the evidence that we’re receiving in committee at the moment, I think this is a concern of mine at the moment because those in the sector have already told me today, and these are their words, not mine, that this is ‘a drop in the ocean’ and to have parity with England in terms of pupil offer that this fund should be between £4 million and £5 million in Wales. Scotland has a £10 million fund already and that is in addition to their general music services. It is good to have a national endowment plan, but while areas across Wales are losing music tutors and peripatetic support as we speak, on the ground, would you not agree that it is not a viable solution to have instruments without looking at the wider picture and the haemorrhaging of music tutors locally?

I’d also like to understand who will get the funding. There’s no detail, from what I can understand, as to whether they will be pupils from more deprived areas or will it be for everybody in general to apply for this fund. I’d like to get some idea as to how much from this £1 million will be set-up costs and how much of it will actually be able to go into the actual acquisition of new instruments. What funds are going to be put in to bridge the funding gap between local activity and the national ensembles? You may find that people won’t be applying for this fund as young people will not be coming through the system in the first place. Will you be looking to set up a central protected funding mechanism for the delivery of music in education nationally?

Can you tell me if, and how, the fund will support the national ensembles? The Welsh Government’s task and finish group, which has been mentioned many times here today, suggested that National Youth Arts Wales should be a key beneficiary of any endowment fund and its interim board is in the process of setting up its work plan as we speak. So, can you tell me what conversations you have had with them about this particular new endowment plan? You mentioned setting up a steering group via the arts council on this. Can you just let me understand a bit more about why the new youth arts body could not have done this work, as opposed to setting up something via the arts council?

The BBC article on this issue suggested that the fund should start making payments in 2020. Will there be any support in the meanwhile? As I’ve mentioned previously, and I think it’s important to reiterate again, many of the services currently in operation simply will not be in operation in 2020, and I am told this by people on the ground, and, again, not by myself. There will be fewer pupils to access the endowment fund. How will this be targeted by yourself? The press release from Welsh Government said that the new fund is an invitation to private and corporate donors to join the Welsh Government in nurturing young musical talents. What evidence has there been that private and corporate donors will be willing to contribute to this particular areas of investment? Do you have names of businesses, for example, who are ready to step up to support music as opposed to, say, science, engineering, or other areas of interest for those businesses in Wales?

My final question is we have had evidence to our committee, and it’s on the record, that there simply is no link at the moment between creative learning through the arts plan—the £20 million that has been quoted quite a lot here today—and music and education. That’s from, again, people in the field. So, you say today that it’s going to complement that work. I really need to get an understanding as to how that will complement the work of the £20 million fund, considering that people are saying to me that it has nothing to do with the peripatetic delivery locally. I think that’s something that you should be mindful of when you’re potentially developing new policies.

I think, in the round, nobody—I don’t think anybody involved in music would go against the fact that this endowment plan is something that is positive, but it cannot, I believe, work in isolation to the issues of the fact that many schools—you know, many schools you’ve visited do good things, but there are many schools who are not investing in music at all, and they’re putting their money elsewhere. Tutors are having to leave music entirely to go and work in other professions because they simply cannot get that level of investment from individual schools. So, I would urge you to look at that, because some schools may be amazing but, if those schools down the road are doing nothing, how are we then going to be encouraging people to rise up the pyramid of musical development, so that they are then able to join the national youth choirs and orchestras that I and others in this Chamber have benefited so greatly from here in Wales?

Thank you very much, Bethan, for your comments and questions. You said at the outset that you didn’t want any more task and finish reports, reviews and updates—you wanted action. Well, this is an action. The task and finish group said that there should be an endowment fund, and I am announcing the establishment of that today. This is an example of how we are actually trying to move things forward in a positive way, rather than just simply writing another report.

Now, why the arts council? We feel that the arts council is best able to be in a position to have the expertise, the experience and the ability to bring in the right people that will set up the steering group. Who will get the money? That is not a matter for me to decide. It will be a matter for the board who will have responsibility for the fund to decide who gets funded under this, and that is absolutely appropriate that that should be the way. The task of Welsh Government in regard to this endowment is to get it started—to kick-start it, to give a signal that we think that this is important, and to provide the initial set-up costs and the initial seed funding to make this a reality. I would expect no more than £250,000 to be involved in the set-up costs and the establishment of the board, and the rest of the investment to go into the fund. I hope that we can start making payments as quickly as possible, but that depends on our success in being able to attract additional funds. And, again, advice from the arts council is—not that I have spoken directly to any potential funder—that there are people, individuals, organisations, who want to be able to contribute to this. I must say that there are already organisations who are contributing hugely to music in Wales—private foundations, individuals, and companies that are doing that.

Without the permission of the company involved I don’t want to name them here today, but I am aware of a company that is providing funds to the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama that substantially—substantially—reduces the tuition fees for children to be able to attend the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama’s musical instrument lessons on a Saturday, and provides the funding for outreach in west Wales, so that those children who find themselves living in Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire, who cannot travel to Cardiff to access the expert tuition, are being funded by a private company. I won’t name them, because I don’t have permission to do so, but I have written to them personally to thank them for what they are doing as an individual company to support music education in our nation. And they’re doing it without fanfare and without a fuss—they’re doing it because they believe it is the right thing to do for those children, and I am grateful to that company.

If they are willing for me to pass it on, and you would like some evidence of that, I’m more than happy. I appreciate that your committee’s work has now closed, but I’m sure it’s not too late to be able to let you know, and I would urge you to speak to the Royal Welsh Collage of Music and Drama. The vast majority of children who access their provision on a Saturday, where it’s music, and drama on a Sunday, are on highly subsidised fees where people are making a contribution for those children—children that they will never meet, children that they will never know, but they’re willing to do that.

Do I wish I could do more, Bethan? Absolutely. But if you tell me you want a fund of £4 million or £5 million, you have to show me in my budget where you’re prepared to cut. Because to put more money into this requires me to not fund something else, and, if you would like to tell me what you want to disinvest from, then I will be happy to do this. Perhaps you could have a discussion with your colleagues for when they negotiate the next budget—maybe this would be one of their priorities, because I’m not aware that it was raised in the budget negotiations this year.

I’m slightly less—[Interruption.] I’m slightly less pessimistic than Bethan has been, because I can name individuals who are patrons of the arts: former collier David Brace and his wife Dawn Brace, who put £20,000 a year of their own money—Dunraven Windows is their company, the double glazing, but they fund the entirety of the Bridgend young singer of the year, which is a Wales-wide competition that competes with the best in talent and prize money that we see across here in the millennium arts centre, and it’s on in a fortnight if you want to come along.

But I would say to the Cabinet Secretary, be ambitious, because, if you look at the funding of the Welsh National Opera, which regularly has to go to major fundraising events in London as well as here—. And it’s the quality of the way that they go at it, the people they have involved in the fundraising. I have no doubt that there are significant individuals, patrons, benefactors, and organisations in Wales that will want to get involved in this, if it is done well. But my question, bearing in mind that next week is the fifty-second anniversary of Jennie Lee’s White Paper—the famous White Paper on the arts under the 1964 Harold Wilson Government, this idea of music and the arts for all, in its wide diversity, the elite art, yes, absolutely, but also the art that anybody would want to enjoy, from the ukulele band in the men’s shed down in Tondu, to the children’s choir in Maesteg, to the very high quality orchestras that perform in my schools from Pencoed, Archbishop McGrath, Y Dderwen, Maesteg and so on, which rely upon the dedication of teachers and peripatetic teachers as well, the Ogmore Valley Silver Band and more—my question to the Cabinet Secretary would be: in making this a success in the years to come, will all of these potentially be able to benefit from it so that we do actually do—? We have to fight this battle year after year, generation after generation, but the idea that music is for everybody, the arts are for everybody, it should not just be one type, one institution, one type of school, one type of organisation, it should be for everybody—will all of those people who put so much effort now into creating music, and giving those opportunities, as Jennie Lee said, not just for young people, but that arts should occupy a central place in British life, and Welsh life, as we would say, and be a part of everyday life for children and for adults, that we can realise that for all of music in all of its diversity in all my communities—?

Thank you, Huw, for the comments and the questions. You are absolutely right. We have to start from the basis that the arts, and culture in its broadest sense, are for everyone. To deny people access to their cultural and their musical heritage and, innately, what lies within them, is to deprive them of something very important and very special indeed. You’re also right to point out that, despite the very challenging times that face school music—and I in no way want to underestimate the challenges that face music services in our schools—there are amazing things going on in schools and in communities the length and breadth of Wales, and that is down to the enthusiasm and dedication of volunteers, teachers, and tutors, who want to share their passion with young people.

I’m not in a position to say, at this point, who will be the beneficiary of the interest arising out of the endowment. That is a job for the steering group and the board that will eventually run this. The other important principle around the arts is that Government should be removed from it, in that sense. It should not be for Governments to be able to commission and say, ‘That gets funded’ or ‘That gets funded’ or ‘That gets funded’, because that way danger lies in being able to twist. Some of the greatest artistic challenge to politicians comes from that particular sector, so there’s an arm’s-length principle to be preserved here, and it’ll be up to the board of the endowment that will make decisions on what is funded, not politicians.

Finally, Suzy Davies.

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Can I just thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement as well? Any money going towards the arts is not going to find complaint with me, but I think there are some important questions that still need answering, despite your answers to various individuals who’ve asked them today.

I completely take your point that the decisions about how this money should be spent are matters for the arts council. However, the arts council is going to need some kind of steer from Welsh Government about what this endowment fund actually really is for. I’ve read your statement and listened to what you’ve said. You say that music is an enrichment activity. Who’s going to disagree with that? You talk about complementing, supporting, enhancing, but what is the Welsh arts council going to think you mean by ‘complementing, supporting and enhancing’? I’m really just trying to get a sense of what it is you expect this fund to provide at the very—. What is it genuinely for?

The reason I ask that is, if you can’t give us an answer about where you think this might take music, we’ve no idea whether £1 million is going to be enough. We’ve no idea what your offer to the public and private funders that you’re hoping to contribute to this might be. There may be, actually, a better way to spend this £1 million if we’re not 100 per cent sure what it is you expect from it. Nevertheless, maybe you can tell me that there’s been some steer from the committee that recommended that we have an endowment fund, because I certainly don’t say we shouldn’t have one; I just need to be clear that this is the best way of reaching an aim that, to me, is not particularly specific at the moment.

Secondly, music services are already looking down the barrel of a dirty great hole in funding after the £300,000 to whatever the NYAW is going to look like at the end of this year. If we’re looking to philanthropists and public bodies to help support the endowment, and I certainly hope they do—Huw Irranca-Davies made a very good case for why they would—are we going to be diverting sources of support from the core music services that we’re trying to keep going here in Wales at the moment? There may well be enough money out there for both the endowment and supplying money to core services, but the evidence we’ve taken in the committee so far—and I know that the First Minister is not keen on us referring to evidence, but, actually, I’m an Assembly Member and I’m going to use our evidence. They’re not confident that they’re going to be getting this money for core work in the years to come, so I’m wondering if—you’ve already heard our concerns about the Arts and Business work and what they do. So, I think there is a genuine question about whether we’re asking perhaps a bit too much of philanthropy here.

Then, just finally, I certainly think you have, in your statement, made connections to the aims of the national curriculum, and that kind of made sense to me, but I’m wondering whether you can explain whether there’s any possibility that this endowment will be accessible to anyone beyond school age. Is this strictly for supporting school-age music services or are adults going to be able to—when you’re putting your remit letter to the arts council, will you be saying this money should be made available to adults to continue to develop their elitism, if you like, to become the best they can, to make it about standards and range, as well as access to all? Thank you.

If I could just make it clear about the practicalities. So, the Arts Council of Wales will be establishing a steering group to guide the set-up of the endowment for Wales. The arts council will be able to draw upon its unique position as a Wales-wide arts, culture and heritage charity to identify members who are best placed to contribute from their respective sectors. Their job will be to create an independent board, which will eventually manage the running of the endowment once it is established. That board and the team supporting it will make the decisions regarding donations, beneficiaries and the awarding of grants. It is to that board that we will make our initial contribution. As I’ve said from the very beginning, in answer to Llŷr Gruffydd, it is not the intention of the Government to add any more. It is the intention of the Government to create the opportunity for the endowment to exist and to signal to people that there is an opportunity to contribute in this way.

There have been a great deal of discussions since the recommendation of the task and finish group with the arts council and those involved in this sector who believe that this vehicle will be an attractive vehicle for organisations in the private sector—that they will want to contribute to it. I’m mindful of the fact that that might mean diversion, and we will have to be aware of that and mindful of that as we go forward.

It is the primary intention of the fund to support young people in particular. It will be my intention that both the bottom and the top end of the music education pyramid that Bethan referred to would benefit from the endowment. So, I want the endowment to ensure that, at every stage, no young person is deterred from progressing due to an inability to afford to do that. So, that would be my main focus of the work of the endowment.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.