3. What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had about the relocation of DWP jobs throughout Wales? OAQ(5)0136(EI)

I have written to the UK Government expressing concern at the lack of prior consultation from the UK Government regarding the Department for Work and Pensions’s estate rationalisation, and confirming our commitment to work with the UK Government to seek alternative offices.

I thank the Minister for that response. I am extremely concerned about the plans for 1,000 DWP jobs leaving different parts of Wales and being concentrated in or near to Cardiff North. Could the Minister tell the Chamber what the plans are for the DWP jobs that are currently based in Cardiff North and what she can do to bring home to the Ministers in Westminster the folly of concentrating everything in or near Cardiff and moving jobs from areas where every job counts?

Well, the Department for Work and Pensions, of course, is stating constantly that there should be no job losses for staff resulting from the future review of the estate, and they are currently recruiting more work coaches. There is a consultation process ongoing at the offices and we know that that consultation also looks at options for relocation.

However, we are very concerned at what the proposals might bring. A lot of the redeployment opportunities in Cardiff North or Pembroke Dock, for example, seem to be illogical and impractical. They threaten to leave staff and communities much worse off and we are urging the UK Government to think again and to work with us to make sure that staff are relocated, if necessary, to the best places to continue the serve the communities that they live and work within.

I’m particularly concerned, of course, in my region at the proposal in Llanelli, which will take out a significant number of workers from the town centre who really need support. But there are wider questions around the way that this process has been undertaken by the UK Government, and I’d like to raise two issues with the Government that I think impact on devolved aspects as well. I was pleased to meet with Public and Commercial Services Union representatives today and I think other Assembly Members have also. They raised with me these two important things: one is that no equality assessment has been done of the impact on the workforce of these moves. For example, a lot of the workers in Llanelli are female, are older, have caring responsibilities and certainly can’t go to Pembroke Dock and would find it difficult to travel by public transport even to Swansea or Cardiff. I think that needs to be taken into account, and I’d like the Welsh Government to urge the UK Government to take a proper equalities assessment, including the workforce and the Welsh language.

The second thing, which the Minister has just mentioned, is co-location. The question is that co-location may take place with devolved public authorities in Wales—are they suitable co-location places? In particular, I’m thinking of the kind of clientele who needs a safe and secure place to be dealt with in a confidential manner.

The Member makes two very good points. I’m more than happy to write again on the equality point. I would just like to reiterate that it isn’t devolved to us, obviously; we have sought to make sure that the DWP is aware that we’re happy to work with them on co-location—correct co-location—with many of the Welsh Government services as well as other non-devolved services. I’m happy to do that publicly again; I’ve already written to that effect.

We stand ready, of course, if people do find themselves made redundant, to assist with our ReAct programmes and all of the other programmes, as we always do, to help affected staff. But I share the Member’s concern and the concern of Julie Morgan that these proposals are driven by estate management and not by community-focused opportunities. The UK Government has a wider duty to the people of Wales than just to manage its estate in a property-efficient way, and to take into account the wider implications of its investment decisions in its estate on the communities of Wales. We have urged them to do that and I’m very happy to do so again.

Minister, the MP for Llanelli, Nia Griffith, and I recently held a packed public meeting in Llanelli with the affected workers—an overwhelming majority of which were women—where there was strong support for the idea of co-locating with other public services in the town. To be fair to Carmarthenshire County Council, they’ve done everything they can to make options available to discuss with the DWP. Workers themselves emphasise that they estimate that they spend at least £0.5 million a year in the town centre in the local economy, which would be a devastating blow were that to be lost.

This week, Nia Griffith had a letter from Damian Hinds, the Minister for employment in the UK Government, who said that they have more estate capacity than is needed, and they’re therefore not in a position to discuss renting space from Carmarthenshire County Council. At the same time, he said that this was still subject to consultation, but it does seem that the UK Government have made up their minds. Would the Minister urge the First Minister to get in touch with the Prime Minister about this, because it is she who said that, post Brexit, the Government is committed to spreading wealth across the UK and this move would fly in the face of that?

Yes, I’m very happy to approach the FM to do that. I’m happy to write again myself as well to make those points again. I do think they’re very important points. As Members will know in this Chamber, we are developing our employability plan. Many of the functions of an employability plan coincide with the functions of the DWP, and we have been talking to them about co-location of services. It need not necessarily involve a rental situation; there are other ways of doing this.

We are very anxious that those are constructive conversations that are based on the need for services in a particular area and not on the need for a particular estate strategy. I think it’s very short-sighted indeed to plan services very badly needed in communities around an estates policy, and not around a community and public service focus. And I’m very happy to make those points again, and I will do so in due course.