Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:59 pm on 1 March 2017.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I say, I think the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee is a very happy committee to serve on because nearly all the issues we look at are about promoting good, clear government and scrutiny and we don’t really have to labour under the incubus of a heavy partisan load, very often, and division, which is really pleasing. We occasionally have slight disagreements—they’re usually in private session, but they are very, very rare.
I particularly welcome the emphasis that the Chair has given to the examination of intergovernmental working and interparliamentary working, because it does seem to me, as we see devolution mature, and, combined with that now, the challenge of Brexit in how it will change our patterns of governance, that means that a certain formality, perhaps, is required. We’re looking at that. We know that the First Minister has talked about a council of Ministers and some form of independent arbitration. These are very interesting ideas and they would change the constitutional arrangements considerably. But it’s not just about the possibility of UK frameworks being required and then being scrutinised—aspects of them, anyway, being scrutinised—in different legislatures, it’s also learning best practice, seeing where a particular challenge has been examined at great length in perhaps another Parliament, and then not having to do all that work ourselves, taking it, perhaps adapting it, and adding to it.
I think it’s these sorts of connections that are not always there. They tend to be strongest amongst officials, but surprisingly weak once you come to the political actors themselves. So, I think there’s a lot there that’s going to be of great practical benefit and something we would want to share with the other parts of the UK.
We’ve talked about codification and I’m glad to see the Counsel General here. I do welcome the Welsh Government’s commitment. It is going to require speed and effort, I think, because this window won’t remain open forever. But we could really deliver something that’s quite unique in the British isles, because we have this opportunity of not formally having had separate laws, now having our own primary law-making powers, and the ability to have a much clearer statute book is going to be open to us. It’s all about the clarity of legislation, which, in turn, gives the citizen much better access to legislation. I think I’ve made this comment before: there’s a lot of legislation in very, very profoundly important areas. We’re talking about housing, education, and health, where, in some of the aspects, if you want to find out what the law actually is, you need to hire a QC to give you an opinion. Now, that cannot be a good situation to be in. Incidentally, they don’t always come out with a clear view even then. So, I think we do have a great opportunity here to show a different way of working.
Finally—I don’t think those are the little things, actually, I think those are quite big things, but I suppose, when we talk about the little things, we’re looking at how secondary legislation is conducted, and it is important, because there’s usually good practice from the Welsh Government, but there is inconsistency as well. Sometimes, we are having to remind Welsh Government of the need to use affirmative procedures when things of real political significance and of concern to citizens are being decided, and not to rush through the process. The affirmative process, really, is a great protection for the Government as well as for the legislature, and its more routine use, I think, sometimes—you know, it should be the presumption, really, it shouldn’t be the exception to what is normally a negative procedure.
Finally, can I just say that the place of citizens—? I did refer briefly to the clarity of legislation, but I do think all Governments and legislatures in the UK and, in fact, the whole western world, will have to do a lot more work to engage citizens. It’s not enough just at elections or to hope that they leave comments on our websites. We’ve got to go out and road test some things directly with our citizens. But I very much welcome the Chair’s statement today.