4. What discussions has the Counsel General held with other law officers regarding the rights of European citizens in Wales? OAQ(5)0033(CG)[W]

Well, the Member will not be surprised to know that this question engages the established law officers’ convention. However, the Welsh Government has made its position very clear: we have called for the rights of EU migrants already living in Wales to be guaranteed immediately.

Well, I thank the Counsel General for confirming the Welsh Government’s position, and I’m sure, like me, he has frequent, and I mean weekly, if not daily, contact with constituents who are very concerned, either that they themselves are EU citizens, or, particularly—in the cases I deal with—that their parents are. They are Welsh citizens, with parents who came sometime in the past, from Poland, or Germany, or whatever, and have not needed to regularise their citizenship, because they simply live here, within the European Union.

I deprecate completely the way the UK Government has used these citizens—our citizens, the people who vote for us here, and have the right to vote for us as Assembly Members—in this way, as a bargaining chip. They need to be made to feel welcome in Wales, and need a clear message from the Welsh Government, at least, that their role in our Welsh public services, and their role as Welsh citizens, is treasured and enhanced here. What further work can the Welsh Government do, from a legal perspective, in particular, and with his work, in ensuring that everyone who lives in Wales is respected as a citizen, no matter where they come from, and that particular rights of EU citizens, especially, can be enshrined in the way that we work as an Assembly, and he as a representative of Welsh Government?

Well, I think the first thing is it’s very important that the Welsh Government does what, in fact, it has done, which is to clearly speak out on behalf of those Welsh citizens, those who may have come from other European countries, who live in Wales, have made their lives here, who work here, and who contribute so much to our economy and family. And that is set out very clearly in the Welsh Government’s White Paper, which has gone to the UK Government, which is the subject matter of discussions. And I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever—it’s a matter that the First Minister will consistently raise—that it sets out our position very clearly:

The rights of EU migrants already living in Wales to remain should be guaranteed immediately and all who live here must be treated with equal respect. We call upon the EU to give a reciprocal guarantee to Welsh and UK citizens living in the EU.’

Has the Counsel General seen the statement on the UK Government’s website, which says that,

When we do leave the EU, we fully expect that the legal status of EU nationals living in the UK, and that of UK nationals in EU member states, will be properly protected.’

And, therefore, the attempt by Simon Thomas to create fear in the minds of those who he described as victims is entirely unwarranted, and, actually, he is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Can I also ask the Counsel General for his opinion on the effect of the 1969 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties in this respect? It’s my understanding that it provides that any rights that have been acquired prior to a country withdrawing from a treaty are preserved subsequently, and that any rights and obligations that are only going to be affected are only prospective and not retrospective.

I’ll deal with that latter point first with regard to the Vienna convention. Can you confirm that it’s section 70 of the convention that you’re referring to—or don’t you know?

This isn’t a scrutiny session.

Well, I haven’t got the—[Inaudible.] [Laughter.]

I will tell you then: it is, in fact, section 70 of the convention. It has been the subject matter of legal consideration, and, of course, it is a convention that applies inter-member states. It does not accrue and give rights. It was part of the mythology, in fact, that was raised during the Brexit debate that, somehow, this would not be an issue, but all the leading legal opinion on this is that, not only is it a matter for member states, it does not convey those rights and would not be enforceable through the UK courts.

In respect of the point that was raised with regard to the UK Government’s position of fully expecting those rights to be honoured, that means that the UK Government is raising the possibility—and this is a concern that those individuals have—that they might not be respected. If the UK Government wants to take the moral high ground, and fully expects all these rights to be honoured, perhaps what we should do is take the position in respect of our own citizens and just do what is right, what is honourable and what is moral in respect of European Union citizens who live in Wales, instead of using them as bargaining chips.

My constituency contains representatives of every European country, with the possible exception of Luxembourg and Liechtenstein, and I can assure the Counsel General that this is not something that is being whipped up. It has led to a spike in derogatory remarks being directed at people who come from other European countries. I’m particularly concerned about those who’ve lived in this country for many years, who have brought up children in this country, who are British citizens, and yet face the prospect, at the moment, of being asked to leave this country even though this is where their families live. Could you tell us whether children have any rights in this situation and what is the right of their parents to continue to live in the same country with them?

Could I say, in response to that, that I actually fully agree with the statement that was made by Marilyn Brown of UKIP on ‘Sharp End’ only a matter of weeks ago, that EU citizens living in Wales should be given full citizenship now, and should not be used as bargaining chips, so there’s obviously a division within the position that UKIP has presented.

Can I also say that, in respect of children—that, in many ways, is one of the most upsetting and distressing parts of this whole scenario? I, like Members, have had representations made by EU citizens who actually describe their family situation, their family circumstances. I had one in particular who was worried that he might have to leave, leaving his teenage son and his Welsh wife behind, because, despite having lived and worked in Wales for 40 years, he would lose his entitlement to be a citizen. I hope that those rights are protected, but for those individuals affected, the humiliating position of having been seen to be someone who suddenly has no rights of citizenship is just plain wrong and immoral, and the Welsh Government has urged the United Kingdom Government to think again on this. I would repeat that urge, and I’m sure that is the view of the overwhelming majority of Members of this Assembly.