10. 6. Debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee Report on the Implications for Wales of Leaving the European Union: Continued

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:32 pm on 28 March 2017.

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Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 3:32, 28 March 2017

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I thank the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee for their report? It is the result of a great deal of hard work, experience and extensive evidence gathering. I was very grateful to have the opportunity to give evidence to the committee, and I know that the First Minister was too.

Mae nifer o heriau yn ein hwynebu ni ar y foment, fel dywedodd Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, David Rees, pan gyfeiriodd e at gymhlethdod y pethau sy’n ein wynebu ni, a’r ffaith hefyd bod pethau yn newid yn ddyddiol. Rydym yn gallu gweld hynny jest wrth edrych ar bethau sydd wedi newid rhwng yr adroddiad a ni yn siarad heddiw.

Between the report being drafted and published on 27 January, the Welsh Government, along with Plaid Cymru, published our White Paper, ‘Securing Wales’ Future’, and the weeks that have followed have been equally eventful: the publication of the UK Government’s White Paper; the passage a couple of weeks ago of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill; Scottish developments in relation to a second independence referendum; a confirmed date for the invocation of article 50 tomorrow; and a promised White Paper on the great repeal Bill on Thursday of this week. This very fast pace of change means that it is essential that we are able to remain agile and able to adapt swiftly to new situations and challenges as they arise. We’ve certainly attempted to do that over the autumn and into this year, by contributing constructively to the Joint Ministerial Committee meetings, and through a series of bilateral meetings that have been held with UK Ministers. And there are some signs, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we are having a genuine impact on the development of the UK negotiating position. We believe they’ve moved towards our position in relation to our clear and consistent call for full and unfettered access to the single market, and in our emphasis on the importance of a smooth transition.

There are, nonetheless, areas that remain of considerable concern. Last week, Simon Thomas referred to the ongoing debate over repatriation. Eluned Morgan this afternoon referred to that as powers reverting to Wales, and while Suzy Davies took a more optimistic view of this, I want to put the Welsh Government’s position on the record absolutely clearly again this afternoon. Powers that have been devolved to the National Assembly for Wales have never left us. We have chosen to exercise those powers through our participation at the European level. When that level is no longer there, the powers will still be here. And if the UK Government wishes to do anything different, it will have to act to take those powers away from us, and that would be absolutely unacceptable.

In its report, the committee identifies a series of issues that are of significant importance to Wales, and there is much alignment between the report and the White Paper shared between Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government on the vital importance of trade, environment, agriculture, marine and fisheries, and European structural and investment funds in particular. There are six recommendations in the report for the Welsh Government to consider, and the First Minister responded formally and positively to the committee on 10 March.

The first recommendation was that we should publish all the evidence on which the Welsh Government’s position in relation to Brexit is based. And we go a long way to doing that in the White Paper, where there are substantial annexes, which set out the evidence base that we have drawn on in relation to sectoral analysis, macroeconomic forecasting and EU migration in Wales. We’ve certainly gone much further than the UK Government has in publishing evidence, and we will continue to publish economic and other analyses in the future. The reason why we accept the recommendation in principle is simply that there is some advice that comes to Government—legal advice, privileged advice that comes from other Governments on provisions that they are developing, and so on—which we’re unable to put into the public domain. But information that we have that is capable of being published we are very keen to add to the debate, in the way that Suzy Davies suggested.

Recommendations 2 and 3 refer to administrative changes in the role of the Brussels office and the way in which the Welsh Government has acted to make sure that we are able to respond to the challenges that lie ahead. And, in this regard, I think we can show that we reacted quickly to the outcome of the referendum in establishing a dedicated European transition team, which leads the development of strategic policy and co-ordinates work across the organisation. That new team works closely with the existing team in our Brussels office, who help us on transition matters, as well as conducting ongoing EU business.

I’ve already referred to the fast pace with which things are changing in relation to Brexit, and it is very important for us to be able to remain agile as an organisation. We will, therefore, be keeping the use of our resources under review, including the role of the team in Brussels, so that we can maximise our influence and secure the best outcomes for Wales. And, in particular, we will need to reassess the situation when we gain greater clarity about the role that the Welsh Government can play in the negotiations that lie ahead, something that we have been pushing the UK Government to engage with us on for many weeks and months.

Recommendation 4—a register of risks. The only reason why we accept this simply in principle is because we are undertaking a fresh risk assessment exercise, as we move into the next phase of the work, after the triggering of article 50 and the start of negotiations with EU partners. We will share information on risks and mitigation measures once this exercise is completed, in line with the views of the committee, and I hope that that will inform some of the future work that the committee will wish to undertake.

The fifth recommendation in the report asks the Welsh Government to take steps to ensure maximum EU funding is secured and utilised. Well, we’ve heard a number of contributions on that this afternoon. The Welsh Government lies far more at the sceptical end of the debate. We say that it is absolutely essential that those people who made promises to the people of Wales, on which people cast their votes in the referendum, show us that the guarantees that they offered will be delivered, and will be delivered in full. And I’ve said that I recognise the steps that the Chancellor of the Exchequer took to provide certainty in relation to funding up to 2020. Those were helpful guarantees; they have given some confidence to our partners in the use of European funding. But they now need to move beyond that. Under the current round of European funding, had we continued, Wales would have continued to benefit from the current round not to 2020, but to 2023. There are a series of programmes that we would have gone on being able to participate in well beyond 2023. Those are the guarantees that we need from the UK Government now, and I’m afraid they will not be as easily secured as some Members of the Assembly have wished to suggest this afternoon.

Recommendation 6 asks us to press the UK for direct involvement in negotiations. The First Minister has made it clear to the Prime Minister and other UK Ministers on a series of occasions now that we must be fully involved. This is particularly vital in the areas of our devolved responsibility, where we say plainly to the UK Government, ‘We must be at the table when those negotiations are being carried out, in order to ensure that the interests of Wales are protected.’ Simon Thomas referred last week to the possible development of a Council of Ministers model in the future, and we have put those ideas on the table as well.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we remain committed to seeking common ground, and to working constructively with all partners as we approach the next phase of our exit from the European union. With the UK Government due to invoke article 50 tomorrow, we look forward to further work of the committee and with the committee to aid the development of our approach to getting the best possible outcome for Wales.