3. Urgent Question: Grass Fires

– in the Senedd on 28 March 2017.

Alert me about debates like this

(Translated)

[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:36, 28 March 2017

(Translated)

The next urgent question, therefore, is Vikki Howells.

Photo of Vikki Howells Vikki Howells Labour 28 March 2017

(Translated)

Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on the Welsh Government’s response to the large number of grass fires over the weekend? EAQ(5)0126(CC)

Photo of Carl Sargeant Carl Sargeant Labour 2:36, 28 March 2017

I thank the Member for her question. I strongly condemn those who start grass fires. They devastate our community, our environment, and put our communities in fear, endangering our firefighters. And we have had reduced grass fires significantly, but I hope to see the situation sustained this year.

Photo of Vikki Howells Vikki Howells Labour

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Crews from South Wales Fire and Rescue Service have attended 62 grass fires since Friday, with many in Rhondda Cynon Taf, and the suggestion is that many were deliberately lit. The challenge for fire services was also in the ferocity of the blazes, which posed a danger to the safety of service personnel, and to our communities. Recent figures show that deliberate grass fires were up 33 per cent in 2015-16 on the year before. How is the Welsh Government working with partner agencies to really get the message out there about the risks that these fires cause?

Photo of Carl Sargeant Carl Sargeant Labour 2:37, 28 March 2017

Well, the Member is right to raise the issue of these fires—several outbreaks over the weekend. We have worked with the fire service, the police, local authorities, Natural Resources Wales and others to establish a coherent and strategic approach to preventing and responding to grass fires. Initial figures show that this approach, working with partners, has been highly effective. The overall number of grass fires in 2016 was over 40 per cent lower than the year before. But it doesn’t help residents and emergency services over this weekend who have been having to tackle unlawful fire-starting. The message is quite simple, Llywydd: we will be coming to look for the people and the individuals who started these fires, and will prosecute them if we find them.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative

Cabinet Secretary, thank you for your responses so far. The pictures that came out from many of these fires were dramatic, in the negative sense, over the weekend, because, obviously, there is the potential to life—not just of the firemen and women, obviously, who are tackling these blazes, but also residents in close proximity to the blazes as well. I well remember your colleague Leighton Andrews coming here to give similar responses in the previous Assembly, and yet, regrettably, we see these fires—very early, I would suggest, in the season; it was the first really dry weekend that we’ve had so far of the spring.

I’d ask you the same question I asked of him: very often, a lot of the people who are associated with some of these fires can be tracked through social media, because, as I said, the pictures are dramatic, and, very often, people are going for that wow factor—in a very negative way, I would suggest. So, what actions are you taking, along with the police, along with the fire service—I hear the fire service have excellent educational tools at their disposal, and are going into schools, but that doesn’t seem to be stopping the arsonists in their tracks? And social media is the tool that’s driving many copycat examples, across the Valleys in particular. So, I’d be grateful to understand what work you have done, along with the enforcement agencies, to try and track and follow people on social media who are exhorting people to undertake such acts of arson and vandalism.

Photo of Carl Sargeant Carl Sargeant Labour 2:39, 28 March 2017

I certainly recognise the points raised by the Member. And it does concern me that, not only firefighters and communities are put at risk, but also there’s animal welfare as well, and that communities are put at risk by the unsociable act of fire-starting in our communities.

The campaign that has brought together all of the agencies has had some great success, and, of course, I do recognise the issue of this weekend. I’ll give you some examples. Aberdare fire station saw 98 per cent fewer grass fires during the 2016 Easter holidays, compared to 2015. And Tonypandy saw a 97 per cent decrease; Maesteg a 93 per cent decrease; and Aberbargoed a 86 per cent decrease. We’ve invested in some camera facilities—covert camera facilities—but what we want to do is look at the prevention side of this rather than tracking people when they aren’t actually fire-starting—we want get in early. That’s why the intervention of the fire service and emergency services is so important. But I will reiterate my point that any information is known by communities—and they will be known. These are badge of honours, worn by the fire-starters, and they will be known in local communities. We would urge them to use the emergency helpline number, of 101, in order to track and trace these individuals, who will then be dealt with appropriately by the emergency services.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 2:40, 28 March 2017

I, too, was horrified by the grass fires that raged throughout my constituency over the weekend. The grass fire in Tonypandy was visible from my home in Penygraig, and I know that that locally many people were concerned about it spreading to local properties. These fires tend to peak at this time of year, in April. We possibly would have had more fires by now had we not had so much rain. But the stark facts are that the number of grassland, woodland and crop fires rose in all three fire and rescue authorities in 2015-16. And in south Wales fire and rescue authority, they had the highest increase of 36 per cent. From the Cynon Taf crop fire rates in 2015-16, we’re nearly double the nearest-placed local authority.

Now, I attended a briefing last week where firefighters informed me of the specific issues pertaining to the Rhondda, and of the sterling work that they’re doing to prevent fires through education, and also through their introduction of fire breaks, and the work that they do once the fires are raging. But more does need to done. And one thing that was suggested to me that could help is that if the restrictions on setting fires on the tops of the mountains could be relaxed. At the moment, the firefighters are able to put fire breaks in, but because of the bad weather they’ve been unable to do so. And the restrictions mean that they’re only allowed to do that up until 31 March. So, if there’s any relaxation of the legislation there, I think that that would be useful if it could be looked at.

And then, finally, I wanted to raise the issue of Porth fire station, which was closed in July 2015. Before it was closed, I urged the Welsh Government to intervene and save the fire station on the grounds of public safety. Intervention to stop the closure is allowed under those circumstances, but that opportunity was missed at that time. I very much hope, Minister, that you will reflect on that missed opportunity, and act accordingly should a similar situation arise in the future.

Photo of Carl Sargeant Carl Sargeant Labour 2:42, 28 March 2017

I thank the Member for her questions. I’ll try and treat each one separately in detail. I recognise that the Member has used the figures—I assume from the Welsh Government’s own figures that were produced. We’ve looked at those very carefully on the basis of what was included in the numbers. The figures that are released were inaccurate in reporting this, and it’s through no fault of the Member raising those issues, but I will clarify them today. The figures that were published last month were for the financial year of 2015-16. They included all of the fires of 2015 but didn’t capture the success of last year’s campaign. I will be making amendments to that for Members. Fire service figures show a 41 per cent reduction during the calendar year of 2016 compared with 2015. So, there is a reduction. And the figures that the Member quoted I assume are wrong, but they are Welsh Government figures. And I accept that; they didn’t capture all of the data properly. I apologise to the Member for that, but will be amending those. There has been as significant reduction in the fires started in Wales, but it still has a lot more work to do.

It is far too early to suggest that this a worse situation at Easter this year, than compared to working up to Easter last year. Obviously, we’ll be working hard with the emergency services to clarify that position.

The Member, unfortunately, coming towards the end, tried to make a political point, regarding the Porth fire station. The Member is fully aware of the duties of the Cabinet Secretary today, and prior as a Minister. This is a matter for south Wales fire service and not a matter for the Government. And the missed opportunity the Member talks about is not one for the Government.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:44, 28 March 2017

(Translated)

Thank you Government Secretary.