Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:40 pm on 4 April 2017.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your response and I’ve listened to all of the responses here today. My first reaction would be to say to you that, if you accept the recommendations by the group that you’ve commissioned, why have you not ruled out a merger? I’m finding it difficult to understand, if you are accepting those recommendations, why you need to commission more research within your Government as to the future outlook of Cadw. Surely, if you accept those recommendations, you can now carry forward those recommendations as they stand? Because we all understand here that there were civil servants on that particular working group. So, I’m trying to understand why the experts seem to be less heard, potentially, than civil servants within your Government. If they’re going to come up with these constructive recommendations, I don’t feel, from what you’re saying today, that that’s truly reflected in your response.
My second point would be, I’ve heard from numerous questions that Dai Lloyd and others have asked in the past that you’d said that you’d be having a public consultation on this. I haven’t heard anything today on that basis, so I’m wondering what you can tell us about, when you make a decision finally, how that consultation will take place. People are muttering things here—I haven’t heard you say when the consultation will take place. I think that’s important for us to hear here today.
The other question is, I know that the national library are welcoming the review that they are having, but I would be personally curious to hear your opinions about how other institutions would be reviewed, if you’re minded to carry forth any merger or any changes, as well. Because, while you and others have mentioned the successes of Cadw lately, they have been historically underperforming as compared to the other national institutions. It’s quite difficult to get all the detail on income and expenditure. My colleague Dai Lloyd has put forward freedom of information requests and has struggled to get all of that information. So, if we could have a review of Cadw and also a review of other bodies, then I think that would be fair with regard to this process.
My other point would be, I’m struggling also—I’m struggling a lot today—to understand, if you are supportive or looking into a merger, how that would not mean that their independence would be undermined. Because, if you’re going to be taking commercial functions away from them and there’s going to be this body that will be making those decisions, what interventions will they have or what voice would they have within that process? I think that’s obviously one of the key concerns. But in practical terms, if that independence is to be realised—you say you support it—then what does that mean in practical terms for them to carry forward with being able to take those everyday decisions so that they can put on various exhibitions? Not that I’d want to see the same types of exhibitions as David Melding, but I’d want to see exhibitions that have been run by them internally as national institutions.
So, I hear what people are saying and I don’t think anybody’s against change, but I don’t understand why the merger is still on the table and how you will carry forth these discussions if they feel, potentially, that you haven’t listened to them as you could have done. Thank you.