Questions now from party spokespeople to the Cabinet Secretary. UKIP spokesperson, Michelle Brown.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Does the Cabinet Secretary agree with UKIP that parents should be able to trigger an Estyn inspection into their child’s school where they have specific concerns about the school?

No, I do not. Estyn, the independent inspectorate, decides on their own programme of inspection regimes and, as an independent inspectorate, free of Government interference, it is up to them to set out how best they should inspect schools.

Thank you for that answer. I note that Estyn doesn’t look at school drop-out rates or the opinions of parents, missing potential indicators of a problem at the school. If a parent removes a child because of a problem with the school, it could be over concerns about poor teaching or something that they’d already tried to resolve with the school. It could, of course, also be because they’ve simply moved house. Therefore, parents who take the step of removing their child through specific issues should really be asked why and the reason they’re moving the child on so that problems can be flagged up. So, don’t you think that Estyn should include that in their report?

Let’s be clear: Estyn take very seriously and consider in their reports of schools issues around attendance. We know that high levels of and regular attendance are the best things a parent can do to enhance and help their children’s education progress.

As to reasons why children maybe move school, I do not believe that that is a strategic issue that we need Estyn to be looking at. If parents have concerns about standards in a school, there are a variety of ways in which those concerns can be addressed, primarily through the chair of the governing body of each individual school, and, if they’re not satisfied with that, the local education authority.

Okay, thank you for that. As you’re aware, there are too many schools in the amber and red categories. Should there be a mechanism that makes it easier than it currently is for children attending a school assessed as amber or red to switch to a school that isn’t failing?

Let me be absolutely clear: if a school finds itself in an amber or red category, that is not an indication that the school is failing. The categorisation system has been introduced to identify levels of support that that school needs to improve, and whilst I am working towards a situation where no school in Wales is amber or red, the Member should acknowledge that the number of schools that find themselves in the green or yellow categories is going up. I commend the teachers and the headteachers of those schools, who are driving standards forward.

The Member should be very clear in her role as an education spokesperson for her party what the value and the purpose of the categorisation is, and you grossly mischaracterised it in your question today.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd.

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, pupils across Wales, of course, over the last week or so have been sitting their national literacy and numeracy tests, and evidence shows us that high-stakes standardised tests narrow the curriculum and have a negative impact on creativity in the classroom, and, subsequently, that risks children being taught to the test and the objective becomes not about improving the education of the children, but about improving their capacity to pass tests. That, of course, is in complete conflict with the curriculum proposals put forward by the Donaldson review that are being pursued.

So, can I ask: do we really need some crude and blunt testing regime to tell us what teachers, through their assessments, already know?

Can I thank the Member for his questions regarding standardised testing? Let me be absolutely clear what the purpose of those assessments is about, because that’s their main purpose. It is to provide another way of assessing where a child is in their education— an independent way of doing that. And I think that provides reassurance and an important source of information for teachers, headteachers and, crucially, for parents, too. It provides the building blocks for those conversations with your child’s teacher about how best your child can be supported to reach their full potential. However, I’ve acknowledged that, in many ways, the assessments are crude, and that’s why last week I announced a multimillion-pound investment into the development of online adaptive testing, which will give us an even better way of assessing where a child is in their education.

Yes, and if you are pursuing tests then, clearly, as I said in response to your announcement, anything that helps to reduce the workload of teachers—for example, through online testing—would be welcome, as long as we guard against a ‘computer says yes or computer says no’ culture emerging. In relation to workload pressures on the workforce, you will also be aware that the Education Workforce Council published a survey recently that highlighted some of the most common areas impacting on teachers’ ability to effectively manage their workload, with over three quarters of the workforce citing administration and paperwork, and nearly half saying that they were struggling to fit curriculum content into the available teaching hours. Nearly 90 per cent of survey respondents said that they were unable to manage workload within agreed working hours. And there’s evidence from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development as well that teachers in Wales work much harder and longer hours than teachers in other nations. That’s clearly impacting on the quality of teaching in Wales and certainly having an impact as well on recruitment and retention, and creating a number of difficulties in that respect. So, with teachers’ pay and conditions being devolved, isn’t it time to revisit the national agreement, particularly in relation to workload, to help avoid in teaching the kind of crisis that we’ve seen in recent years in health?

Thank you, Llyr. Can I be absolutely clear that the primary driver for the investment in online adaptive testing is because we believe it will be more useful when it comes to assessment for learning and for raising standards? The fact that it actually reduces workload and bureaucracy for teachers is a by-product, although a welcome by-product. I understand that the issues of workload are very real for our teachers, and I want to look at a variety of opportunities where we can free up both schoolteachers and leaders to give them the time to concentrate on what matters most. Therefore, you’ll be aware that we are looking at, for instance, a programme of business managers and bursars to take away tasks from headteachers that could be done by another professional, leaving the headteacher to concentrate on professional learning, curriculum development and the teaching within the school. And the same for individual teachers: we’re running a new bureaucracy project at the moment to identify where we, as Welsh Government, are asking teachers to do things, whether that is adding value to learning, and if it’s not we’re prepared to strip that out. We’re also undertaking a myth-busting regime. Many of the professionals I speak to go above and beyond what can be reasonably expected of them, because they fear, for instance, that it will be expected of them by Estyn. We’re working very closely with Estyn to develop a myth-busting project, so that teachers are very clear about what is expected of them, and are not going above and beyond and doing things that don’t add value, but actually cause stress and additional workload that is not required by our inspection regime.

In your own words, you’re looking at a number of issues, but in the meantime you’re hurtling full pelt towards the curriculum reforms that many of us have warned are storing up problems, because the capacity isn’t within the system as it stands for the teachers to absorb the huge reforms that are ahead. And I called previously on you to step back from introducing the curriculum according to the current timetable, so that we can make sure we do it correctly and that it’s not a case of doing it quickly. NUT Cymru, of course, has added their voice to those calls as well now. So, I’m asking you will you listen to the profession. Will you listen to those working at the coalface who are telling us that getting all the reforms in place for the new curriculum to be ready to be introduced in, what, 12, 16 months’ time, is now unrealistic? Or are you intent on ploughing on regardless?

What I will do is listen to those at the coalface who are developing this curriculum. The idea that this curriculum is being developed solely by Welsh Government and will be imposed upon the teaching profession is not how the system is being developed at the moment. Our pioneer school networks, our teachers, our learning professionals are at the heart of this process. You’re absolutely right, we need—I need—to be secure that the teaching profession is in a place to be able to use this exciting new curriculum, and I will be guided by the professionals who are dealing with, not only the area of learning experience, but are dealing with the professional learning aspects of the curriculum as we go forward. And if they have concerns, I will take those on board.

Conservatives’ spokesperson, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, attention has already been drawn to the fact that we’re heading towards a recruitment crisis in our teaching profession and, of course, this was highlighted by the Education Workforce Council’s survey, which found that more than one in three teachers intends to leave the profession within the next three years. What specifically are you doing to plug the gap if those one in three do actually leave the profession?

Thank you, Darren. The first-ever teaching survey has given us a wealth of information, not just for statistics, but also qualitative and data as well, and we’re studying that at the moment. We need to ensure that we create an education system in Wales that retains our best talent within our system, but also recruits into that system our very best and brightest individuals. Therefore, as you know, we are currently reforming our initial teacher education provision and we are looking at new ways in which we can attract career changers into the teaching profession, as well as addressing issues like workload, which Llyr Gruffydd has just talked about, so that people who are already teachers feel motivated to stay within the classroom. I’m pleased to say that the recruitment figures into this year’s ITE is out-performing what we did last year and is actually better than England.

There’s just been a huge recruitment drive for new nurses in the Welsh NHS with a lot of money and a lot of promotional work that has been done in many different ways across social media, the printed media and other media at large. Why are we not seeing a similar effort to recruit the teachers that the Welsh schooling system needs, so that we’ve got sufficient Welsh-medium teachers and sufficient STEM subject teachers for the future? Because, otherwise, we’re going to continue to slip down the OECD’s PISA scale in the way that we have over the past 10 years.

I would just reiterate to the Member, again: our recruitment figure for people who are entering into courses this September is better than it was last year and out-performs the recruitment into ITE provision in England. But, of course, there is always more for us to do. The Member will be aware that the four regional consortia working together have been producing a recruitment campaign to attract those people who perhaps have had enough of the English education system to demonstrate to them that they can come and work in a supportive environment here in Wales, and we are seeing results as a result of that recruitment campaign. But if the Member has new ideas about how we can recruit more teachers, I’m always open to them.

I’ll give you one idea, Minister, and in fact we suggested one in the past that, fortunately, you’ve actually listened to and taken up. One was in respect of improving the bursaries available to attract new people into the profession, and the second is to remove some of the ridiculous barriers that overseas-trained teachers currently face here if they want to come and work in Wales. It is ridiculous that overseas-qualified teachers in Australia, Canada, the United States and New Zealand can go and work in other parts of the United Kingdom without having to do adaptation courses, and yet they cannot come to Wales and work, including deputy heads and headteachers. That is an unacceptable barrier to recruitment here in Wales, and could help to stem the tide of people slipping away from the profession as a result of the poor reputation of the Welsh education system.

Well, Darren, you do raise a serious point. I don’t want to turn away any talent from Wales, and if somebody has something to contribute to the Welsh education system, then I want them to be able to do that. My officials are currently reviewing the rules around what qualifications are necessary to teach in a school in Wales. Let me be absolutely clear: the rules that are currently in place were as a result of a previous Government’s consultation, where there was a very clear consensus about the necessity for the rules that we have in place at the moment. But I have to say, Presiding Officer, I will take no lessons from a Tory Assembly Member when I have to listen to the rhetoric of his party leader on immigration. This is a member of a party that spends all its time denigrating people who want to come and contribute to this country.