The OECD do, as do several other economists, including some major American economists. I will write to you and give you the names. I haven’t got them with me at the moment. I didn’t expect to have to answer that. [Interruption.] Paul Krugman I’ve had mentioned to me, but there are several of them in America who believe that.

You borrow for equipment and buildings. We’re not borrowing for wages, we’re borrowing for capital expenditure. We can look to American and British history. Herbert Hoover was the American president at the time of a recession. He turned it into a depression. Hoover pursued many policies in an attempt to pull the country out of depression; what he didn’t do was reflate. Hoover supported new public works, but not enough of them. So now Britain has a Government to the right of Herbert Hoover. How did America come out of it? By electing Franklin Delano Roosevelt, not a communist, Trotskyist or even a man who would have been considered on the left in world terms at the time; today, he probably would because the world’s moved very much to the right. And he reflated the economy—the Tennessee valley project being one example. The Tories needed the second world war to reflate the British economy by substantial Government borrowing to pay for the second world war. The borrowing that they refused in the pre-second world war period, which would have reflated the economy, had to be paid for during the war. I’m sure the Conservatives look to the 1930s as a period of uninterrupted Tory rule. Labour, and I’m sure Plaid Cymru, look upon it as a period of poverty and desperation for many living in Wales.

I have no time to explain how the Marshall Plan helped rebuild the economy of western Europe. Turning to strong and stable Government, I think the man who talks most about strong and stable Government is President Erdogan, president of Turkey; he’s all about strong and stable Government. Some would think that his strong and stable is not particularly the type of Government we would like. What we have is a Tory Prime Minister who is strong with the weak and weak with the strong. Theresa May is the least suited person to be Prime Minister since Neville Chamberlain, and that worked out well, didn’t it? What we want is leadership for the whole country, not just the rich and powerful; a willingness to debate, not run away from leaders’ debates; and a willingness to explain, not sloganize. The best leaders have always listened. The best leaders always will.

Finally on the economy, I am not sure which is the saddest, those on the Conservative benches who know that the economy needs reflating but will vote for this motion, or those who don’t.