We now turn to party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Children. The first today is Mark Isherwood.

Diolch. Of course, we must applaud the innovation coming from transfer housing associations.

Two weeks ago here you spoke in support of police devolution on a motion that also believed that specialist policing matters such as counter-terrorism are best co-ordinated at a UK level. If this were to happen, how would that work, given that the First Minister has called for powers equivalent to those devolved to Manchester, which are the powers of a police and crime commissioner, and therefore exclude operational matters? But even if it did include operational matters, the precedent in America, France and Italy, amongst many other nations, is that you end up with two separate police forces at different levels accountable to different people. So, how would that work?

Well, there is a model that’s already operating in Scotland, where there is a counter-terrorism operation between boundaries. That has no effect for individuals in terms of the UK administration. We can see that operating in the very same way on a Wales-England and UK basis as well. I think what we’ve been very clear about on the devolution of the police is that it fits in very nicely with the services that are provided already with the emergency services and the judicial system that we are also hoping will be transferred to Wales as well.

Well, again, I would be interested to know whether you’re envisaging, as the First Minister appears to, only police and crime commissioner powers, or something more.

But broadening the topic, we saw coverage last week from the anti-slavery co-ordinator for Wales, who had raised concerns about a number of entry points into Wales not having checks in terms of anti-slavery and people trafficking activities. He said that this week would be a week of action by Welsh forces aimed at tackling human trafficking and modern slavery, which he said had risen by 400 per cent in five years, including the children of victims. Are you able to tell us what involvement you and the Welsh Government have had in this operation and, either now or at a future date, brief the Assembly on what has occurred?

I would be very happy to update Members in the Chamber at a later date in terms of details from the successful programmes that we are operating. I would also offer the services of our anti-trafficking co-ordinator for any Members who wish to be briefed on this issue—for a personal briefing or a party briefing as well. I’d be happy for us to arrange that also. We are the only part of the UK that has invested, as Welsh Government, into an anti-human trafficking co-ordinator. I’ve raised this at very high levels in Westminster, because while I think it’s an excellent idea to have an anti-slavery co-ordinator, we are an island, and we are only a part of that island. I think it’s incumbent that Scotland and England also pursue this issue as well, and I would encourage the Member to raise that with his political leadership in terms of trying to resolve this issue in England and Wales.

[Inaudible.]—your predecessor worked with the UK Government on its UK anti-slavery legislation and the introduction of an officer there who does work with the anti-slavery co-ordinator in Wales.

But sticking with the theme of children for my final question, given the three inequalities in particular identified in the Children’s Commissioner for Wales’ ‘Hidden Ambitions’ report—. It said that young people leaving care need the same sort of opportunities, assistance and support that all parents try to give their children as they start to make their way in the world’.

What steps are you taking to ensure that those in social care who reach the age of 18 are still entitled to obtain such care while studying A-levels? And what proposals do you have to ensure that young people who leave care continue to receive appropriate support until they reach 25—I think two of those three key calls in that report?

Indeed, and we’re working through that piece of work that the children’s commissioner did. Your colleague David Melding chairs a group on looked-after children for me. The advice coming from that team is invaluable in terms of shaping a different way that we are able to support children in the social care system. I am absolutely committed to making some changes in that space, and we’ve recently launched the St David’s award of £1 million, which will be on its way to local authorities to distribute between under 25-year olds, whom I believe should have access to some finances as they grow up. I didn’t badge this as—. We badged it as £1 million St David’s Day award, but I kind of like to think about it as ‘the bank of mum and dad’, like all of us have for our children, where they are able to go to a guardian or to kin to say, ‘Look, I want to go here tonight’—like my daughter did, or like your family did. These young people are so disadvantaged, we’ve got to support them in some way, and this is, hopefully, one step in the right direction to helping to support a normal type of life.

Thank you. We now move to the Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Bethan Jenkins.

Cabinet Secretary, in light of this week’s attack in Manchester, I thought it would be appropriate to ask what the Welsh Government is doing with regard to community cohesion. I ask in this context: a few years ago, I wrote to South Wales Police asking about some of the reasons why young men in Cardiff, for example, were moving to look to extremism as a way of life, or as something that they would find solace in, and they weren’t able to give me that information because it was protected. I don’t think some of those issues have gone away and I would like to understand from you what you are trying to do to work with communities to ensure that, if we are finding that there are instances where they may move to extremism, we understand why that is, and how you are working with communities to try and stop that, so that they have something to work with in their communities, as opposed to, potentially—potentially—feeling alienated.

I think the Member raises a very important and pertinent question, and our thoughts go out to the families and individuals affected by the Manchester bombing of two days ago. Community cohesion is one that we take very seriously, working with the local authorities, with the police, and with action groups on the ground. We have funded, since 2012, eight regional community co-ordinators in and across Wales. The grant is around £360,000 for posts awarded for 2017-18. We shouldn’t underestimate the important role that that plays in the community, but it’s about community ownership, and the engagement and trust is really important, so that we can get behind the scenes of where there are cases emerging of radicalisation. And I think what we’ve been able to do with the co-ordinators is to get into that space, and we will continue to fund that, particularly around this pressure point as well.

Thank you. It will be interesting to see an analysis of that, because I wanted to go on to ask particularly about at-risk groups, because we know that it may not be as simple as saying that it is because they may have a potential political grievance, or that they feel politically alienated that drives them to do this. It may be, as we’ve seen from other perpetrators of previous attacks in Europe, that they have lengthy criminal records already, often including domestic violence, and many have experienced deep poverty, which also, then, adds to their sense of feeling isolated. I’m not for one moment saying that what they do is acceptable, but I think we have to try and look at those at-risk groups, and try and stop them from getting to the stage where they feel that this is something that they need or want to do with their lives. So, are there communities in Cardiff, in those particular groups, that you’ve identified and that you are currently working with?

Yes, and alongside the police across the whole of Wales, and, indeed, the UK, there is an intelligence-led approach about how we look at particular groups, and we are able to support them in that sphere. I think the Member is right to raise—although the issues of historic actions may have had an impact on their adult lives, that’s not always the case either. And that’s why the identification of radicalisation or terrorism is really difficult, because we cannot describe what a terrorist looks like. The fact is, we’ve got to look back at some of their historic issues, and that’s why some of our other programmes, which will be interrelated around tackling issues around adverse childhood experiences, will sometimes give us an indicator of a pathway that an individual is taking. And this is why we’re learning alongside our other agencies, and there has been lots of work about why radicalisation takes place. I think there’s an awful lot of work still to be done, but our intelligence services are working very hard on this.

And my third question is something that has animated my mind since Manchester, and many of us here today as well, with regard to extremism, not only on the side of how we would see minority groups, but also far-right groups as well, who are attacking anybody at the moment who are Muslim in our society, even before they know what the religion of that potential perpetrator is. We had a debate last week on online abuse and we’ve seen a rise in that type of abuse by people who live amongst us. Quite frankly, I’m embarrassed by some of the things that I’ve been reading, attacking people in communities who don’t deserve to be attacked because they are no more guilty of this than any of us are.

So, I was wondering what you would be able to do in relation to talking to the education Secretary about having discussions with her about having more education, at an earlier age, about how we can be respectful of one another, how we can use online media, but also, in relation to terrorist activities, how we can understand what it is. For example, I studied at Aberystwyth university and there was no course on terrorism until 9/11 happened, and they put a course on especially for us to understand what that meant and how we could understand the world stage in relation to that. I don’t know if that’s happening for our young people and I think it’s turning communities against one another instead of uniting our communities. So, I know that it’s a complex issue, but how are you going about trying to unpick some of these very complex reasons for why people are taking to attacking others who have nothing to do with the awful acts that are taking place on the world stage?

Yes, there are two points to the Member’s question I feel: one is around the educational aspect of this. There is work going on in our schools to talk about and discuss with individuals tolerance and religion. I think that’s an important factor as we move forward, it’s about societies being tolerant with each other and our understanding of religious beliefs.

Let’s be very clear, and I’m with the Member on this—it’s abhorrent, the hatefulness that appears on social media from ill-informed individuals. Let me be very clear: Muslims aren’t terrorists. Terrorists are terrorists, and that’s the difference. I think we’ve got to be very clear about our ambition to make sure that Wales is a welcoming place. We want to help people and we want to support people. There’s certainly no place for misinformation, based on religion, on social media or, in fact, in any space where we are able to have conversations.

Thank you. And finally the UKIP spokesperson, Gareth Bennett.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I think there was welcome news recently from your colleague Lesley Griffiths about potentially including the ‘agent of change’ rule in planning regulations with regard to the protection of live music. I think that that’s a welcome development. It’s something that could help pubs that put on live music shows. There may be other ways in which the Welsh Government can help in this area. I know you had talks with CAMRA—the Campaign for Real Ale—earlier on in the Assembly term, so I wondered what the outcome of those talks was and if you were considering any other measures to protect pubs.

Yes, and this isn’t one Minister’s responsibility. Indeed, after Lesley Griffiths made the announcement around the issue of music venues, I spoke to Ken Skates only yesterday about the regeneration opportunities and perhaps areas of culture that could be designated for regeneration, which often may include arts and entertainment venues.

I did meet with CAMRA and we’ve had some discussions within our team about what the opportunities may be in terms of a Welsh-based solution for pubs and other publicly run buildings in Wales. I hope that I’ll be able to make an announcement shortly on that.

Okay, thanks for that. I’ll await the announcement obviously, but some ideas have been aired by CAMRA in the past. I don’t know if it’s perhaps premature to ask what your thoughts are on these. One of them pertains to—it’s slightly crossing over portfolios, I appreciate—planning and it’s the ease with which pubs in Wales can be changed by the owners, by pub chains, from pubs into shops or flats. This is because we don’t actually have a planning system like they have in Scotland, where they need express planning permission for change of use. So, I wondered if that was a change that you might be considering for Wales.

As I said, it’s a matter for cross-Cabinet discussion and planning will feature in the future of what we see for our public buildings. I think there are many factors that we have to have caution about, too. It’s not like one size fits all, and whatever happens in Scotland—if you want to pick the good bits in Scotland and the good bits in Wales, it’s always difficult to do that. The issues around community right to buy et cetera, or the right for a register, is something that I’m looking at, but I’m cautious about protecting a building with no intent of long-term purchase just to stem a planning application. We’ve just got to balance that issue out. I think further discussions with CAMRA may evolve following my discussions and announcements in the near future.

Okay, thanks for that. Now, I know you’re also responsible for the Post Office. At First Minister’s question’s last week, the First Minister was highlighting the need for co-location, which is something we’ve talked about in a lot of different policy areas. I wondered if there was any possibility of encouraging pubs perhaps to co-locate with post offices, if that might be a way forward to help the viability of pubs in future.

Well, I’m sure you should take a visit with Darren Millar to his local where you can get a pint a stamp and a curry, all in the same place. I did visit the pub, a long time ago, with the Member. I’m sure he’d like to take you perhaps at some stage to just show what can be done in our communities where there are opportunities.

Thank you very much. We return to the questions on the order paper now. Question 3, David Melding.