The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt, and amendments 2, 3 and 4 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.

Therefore, we move to item 8, which is the Welsh Conservatives’ debate on the Welsh economy. I call on Russell George to move the motion.

Motion NDM6316 Paul Davies

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Welcomes the UK Prime Minister’s commitment to scrap tolls on the Severn Crossings which will deliver a £100m boost to the Welsh economy.

2. Recognises the need for a north Wales growth deal and its importance for future prosperity in the region.

3. Notes the importance of developing similar regional deals for rural communities in mid Wales to ensure our country works for everyone.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to move the motion in the name of Paul Davies. The aim of our motion is to welcome the economic boost to the Welsh economy, which will be delivered by the Prime Minister’s commitment to scrapping the tolls on the Severn crossing and calls for the Welsh Government to recognise the need to address the regional disparity in economic prosperity, which still exists within Wales, through both a north Wales and mid Wales growth deal.

Firstly, Deputy Presiding Officer, there is consensus from across the Chamber in support of the abolition of the tolls on the Severn crossing. The tolls on both Severn crossings are, I believe, an economic and symbolic barrier to Wales, which is why I’m delighted, of course, that the Prime Minister has made this commitment, a move that is estimated to boost the economy of south Wales by around £100 million a year. This decision shows, of course, the rest of the world that Wales is open for business.

The motion also calls for a recognition of the need for a north Wales growth deal and a mid Wales growth deal for the future prosperity of both regions. I would like to focus my remarks on this. I’m aware that other Members hope to be called to focus on other areas of our motion.

North Wales has the combination of assets to be a thriving region of our nation. Its geographical location not only makes it uniquely beautiful for Welsh tourism—second only, of course, to my Montgomeryshire constituency—but it has a prime position for developing economic links with Ireland and cities like Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester. And Manchester, of course, as we’re all aware, is a city and a community that has shown in the last few days a great resilience and is a true credit, I think, to the rest of the United Kingdom, through its spirit and resolve in the face of a horrendous terrorist attack. And, of course, our thoughts remain with the victims and families who were involved in those shocking events.

Deputy Presiding Officer, the fact of the matter is, I think, that 1 million people of working age are living either side of the border, and rather than looking south to Cardiff, the people and businesses of north and mid Wales tend to look east towards Manchester, Liverpool and the midlands, as a result of cross-border movement. It’s a routine fact of life, and the border, I don’t believe, should be an economic barrier. On the contrary, the north Wales economy will undoubtedly benefit greatly from the prosperity and growth in the north of England, offering employment and business opportunities for people in the north Wales region. And this close economic alignment, I think, makes it incredibly important to ensure that cross-border collaboration takes place on the delivery of transport infrastructure projects, and regional transport authorities would go some way, I think, towards ensuring that infrastructure priorities are set at regional level. So, I think it is vital, therefore, that the Welsh Government not only strengthens the transport infrastructure surrounding the A55 corridor, but that it goes further in building a stronger working relationship, both with the UK Government’s Department for Transport and Transport for the North, in order to cement north Wales as an intrinsic part of this exciting new economic region.

Finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, I would also like to refer to the importance of developing a similar regional deal for mid Wales. I do believe that a mid Wales growth deal would go some way to driving and increasing productivity and social mobility in mid Wales. When I recently visited Lake Vyrnwy hotel in my Montgomeryshire constituency to discuss their plans for the future, it was clear that more investment in marketing mid Wales as a specific tourist destination and investment in transport networks and creating a world-class telecommunications infrastructure are desperately needed as part of a mid Wales growth deal to create a thriving mid Wales economy. Mid Wales, which is a viable place to do business, ensuring that key sectors such as tourism and agriculture are plugged into the midlands engine.

So, in order for the region to reach its potential, the Welsh Government must also devolve economic levers, I think, to mid Wales as well as north Wales. I see a mid Wales growth deal as the best way forward in conferring greater powers to mid Wales—a crucial and necessary step to regenerate the mid Wales economy, to deliver a mid-Wales-specific solution aimed at inspiring locally led economic growth. So, I commend our motion this afternoon to the Assembly and I look forward to other Members’ contributions over the next hour.

Thank you. I have selected the four amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Infrastructure and Skills to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt.

Amendment 1—Jane Hutt

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Welcomes the leadership role of the Welsh Government in working with other parties to scrap tolls on the Severn Crossings which will deliver a £100m boost to the Welsh economy.

2. Notes the Prime Minister’s U-turn in supporting abolition of the Severn tolls.

3. Recognises the commitment of the Welsh Government to working with the UK Government and partners on all sides to deliver the North Wales Growth deal and ensure sustainable transport links into all parts of Wales.

4. Notes that the removal of tolls is just one part of the Welsh Government’s plan to increase economic growth and improve the transport system in Wales, which includes work underway to decarbonise the transport network in line with the obligations of the Wellbeing of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally.

Formally. Thank you. I call on Dai Lloyd to move amendments 2, 3 and 4, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. Dai.

Amendment 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new point 3 and renumber accordingly:

Recognises the urgent priority of electrification of the North Wales Coast Line, the South Wales Main Line and the Valleys Lines and their importance for future prosperity of their respective regions.

Amendment 3—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the UK Government to come to a positive decision on funding for the Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon to ensure economic growth in that area.

Amendment 4—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add a new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to consult with Pembrokeshire County Council to abolish tolls on the Cleddau Bridge in Pembrokeshire as an economic boost to the area.

Amendments 2, 3 and 4 moved.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. As you’ve already referred to, I’m pleased to be standing here and I move the amendments in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Plaid Cymru believes that the tolls on the Severn crossings should be abolished, and we’ve been saying that for many years, and that we should ensure the devolution of powers to allow these bridges to be managed by this Assembly. After all, this is a £100 million boost for the Welsh economy and we want control over this issue as well. The tolls on other bridges have already been abolished. We know about the bridge over the Humber in England, and there was a significant cost related to that. The tolls on the Isle of Skye bridge in Scotland have also been abolished, and more recent bridges that stand high above a river, such as the Britton Ferry bridge in my region, have no tolls. It’s not that I’m suggesting that we need tolls on that bridge, but the fact is that there are some bridges with the M4 going over them that have tolls and others that don’t have any tolls on them. Over the years, going back to the Severn crossings, we’ve paid over and over again as taxpayers and users of these crossings under the old PFI agreement for the Severn crossings. That’s an injustice that continues to hurt many people.

While we are talking about this, one of our amendments calls on the Welsh Government to campaign and to consult with Pembrokeshire County Council to abolish tolls on the Cleddau bridge as well. If we’re getting rid of one lot of tolls, we might as well abolish the tolls on the Cleddau bridge, too. The same arguments exist for stimulating and giving an economic boost to that region as well, stemming from the abolition of tolls. That’s all true for the banks of the Cleddau, as well as south Wales in terms of abolishing the Severn bridge tolls.

But as well as getting rid of the tolls, we need to invest in infrastructure to give a significant boost to our economy and create jobs for our young people. That’s the basis of our amendments that call for the urgent electrification of the south Wales main line from London to Swansea. I’ve been talking about this for more than 10 years now. As well as this, we need to electrify the Valleys lines and the north Wales coast line. We’re still waiting for that, and that’s the basis of another of our amendments. I’d be pleased if people could support those.

Finally, we’re still waiting for the UK Government to come to a positive decision in favour of funding the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. The arguments have been won, and every party here supports this innovative idea. What about having a positive decision to boost the Welsh economy? Thank you very much.

I’m pleased to support this motion, and in my contribution I’d like to focus on the first part of the Welsh Conservative motion relating to the Severn crossings. The Prime Minister’s commitment to scrap tolls on the Severn crossings is potentially a game changer for the Welsh economy, delivering, as Dai Lloyd referred to, a £100 million boost, potentially. It’s also a very exciting prospect for my constituents in Monmouthshire, which has close cross-border links with the south-west of England, and Bristol in particular—links that have been hampered, suppressed by the tolls for far too long.

Of course, as we all know, the tolls were part of the original agreement with the company that built the second crossing, which opened in 1996—21 years ago, now—Severn River Crossings PLC, and designed initially to cover the cost of construction and maintenance for the new bridge and the existing Severn bridge. But it is the imminent expiry of that agreement that now allows the bridges to come into public ownership, or for the new bridge to come into public ownership and for the original bridge to revert to public ownership. Of course, one of the obvious questions has been, ‘Who will now fund the maintenance of the bridges?’, so we welcome the confirmation that funding will be absorbed into overall maintenance costs for the M4 motorway.

A 2012 report estimated that removing the tolls would boost productivity by the order of 0.48 per cent, and increase the gross value added of south Wales by around £107 million. We know the problems that Wales has had with GVA; we’ve mentioned it many times in this Chamber—the Welsh Government doesn’t like us talking about the GVA figures, particularly in south Wales and the Valleys. We know what problems there have been with GVA, so this decision, or proposed decision, by the UK Government must be welcomed by all parties in this Chamber.

Back in my constituency, in my corner of Wales in Monmouthshire, Monmouthshire County Council has also noted the potential increase in tourism that the removal of tolls could facilitate. Councillor Bob Greenland, cabinet member for innovation, enterprise and leisure, has cited survey evidence that suggests that 22 per cent of residents said they would expect to make trips to Wales in the next 12 months if the tolls were removed. When you consider that tourism was worth £187 million or thereabouts to the Monmouthshire economy in 2015, you realise just what that increase potentially means for people living in my corner of Wales and for the wider south Wales economy.

Of course, scrapping the tolls has received massive cross-party support. In a symbolic vote in this Assembly held back in November 2016, the abolition of the tolls was unanimously supported. So, we do now need the Welsh Government to work closely with the UK Government to deliver the full benefits of this policy. We often talk about the need for the UK Government and the Welsh Government to work closely together, and this is a situation where that close working relationship can really deliver benefits for south Wales and the Welsh economy in general.

Other members of my group and, indeed, other Members of the Assembly will speak, I’m sure, about the benefits of the north Wales growth deal and other parts of Wales, but I would point out, as Dai Lloyd referred to, that there are other bridges in Wales—I think you mentioned the Cleddau bridge—that are currently run for profit. So, we believe that the Welsh Government should look at ways of reducing this burden to the economy in the future, so that all parts of Wales, not just south-east Wales, can benefit from toll-free travel. It’s all well and good for the Welsh Government and other parties, indeed, to talk about the need to reduce profit when it comes to the Severn crossings, but what about those other bridges? When we look across to Milford Haven and we look across to other parts of Wales, what about spreading the benefits of that fairness of scrapping tolls to other parts of Wales? I can see the Cabinet Secretary grinning over there, but I think this requires more than grinning, it requires action from the Welsh Government to—[Interruption.] You have a very nice grin, Alun, but, unfortunately, it’s not enough to deliver full economic regeneration across Wales, no matter how much you sometimes think it is.

For now, let us welcome the UK Government’s commitment to abolish the tolls on the Severn crossings and look at ways that Alun Davies, the Minister and the other Ministers can work with the UK Government to support the delivery of this policy and work to maximise the full economic benefits to Wales now and in the future.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak in this debate. As someone who lives in Newport, I know first-hand how important this issue has been over many, many years. The excessive Severn tolls have been charged to people making essential journeys, and are a tax on Welsh businesses and commuters. For years, the Tories have ignored the pleas of businesses and commuters on both sides of the bridges to scrap this tax in Wales. I’ve examples of constituents who had to turn down job offers because of the cost of the tolls, which equate to nearly an hour working on the minimum wage.

The Severn crossings are a crucial transport and economic infrastructure part of the M4 corridor. For south Wales, it’s the gateway to Wales. The Welsh Labour Government have been clear on the importance to the Welsh economy of scrapping the tolls. As far back as 2012, a Welsh Government report found that it would boost productivity by over £100 million a year. That fell on deaf ears in the UK Government. While I very much welcome the Tories agreeing with Labour policy to scrap the tolls, it’s vital that we look strategically at the implications.

Russell George rose—

The first are the repercussions for traffic management in the local area.

Are you taking an intervention?

A Welsh Government report found that if the tolls were scrapped, there would be an estimated 12 per cent increase, equivalent to about 11,000 vehicles a day, in traffic volumes. This impact would have a major effect on congestion in Newport, especially in the Brynglas tunnels. Already, an estimated 80,000 vehicles use the crossing every day, and any increase in this makes a solution to the congestion at the Brynglas tunnels even more critical. I know that the Cabinet Secretary recognises the importance of this.

The second point is the effect that this will have on house prices in Newport and the surrounding areas. The Bristol house market is booming, with the average house price hovering around £290,000. In Newport, the average house price is £170,000. Newport is a fantastic place to live and visit. It has lots of wonderful parks, green spaces, a range of historical sites, and it’s been boosted by the redevelopment of the city centre in Friars Walk. It has excellent transport links and a strong community spirit.

The combination of cheaper house prices, the tolls being scrapped, and the attraction of Newport as a place to live—we could see a surge in people moving from Bristol to Newport. This will have a dramatic effect on local house prices. Indeed, there’s already evidence that parts of Monmouthshire in close proximity to the bridges have experienced a spike in prices. This, of course, is fantastic news for local homeowners, but we must be mindful and careful that local people, particularly young people, aren’t priced out of buying a house in the area they grew up in. Although Newport City Council and the Welsh Government are doing their best, there are still not enough affordable homes in Newport. A surge in house prices over a relatively short period of time could exacerbate this situation.

And, finally, while I very much welcome the Tories’ epiphany moment on this, some may say it’s cynical electioneering, with another u-turn. The Tory UK Government has been dragging their feet for far too long. Some Members here are very new to the issue, and I’d like to pay tribute to Labour Members in particular, over many years, who’ve campaigned on this issue—

Russell George rose—

[Continues.]—particularly John Griffiths, Paul Flynn, Jessica Morden and Rosemary Butler. Go on. I’ll take an intervention; I’ve got time.

Would you accept that in the Conservative—in Theresa May’s—manifesto, she made an absolute, clear commitment on the Severn crossing, but that Labour—. In Jeremy Corbyn’s manifesto, all that was said in there was—there was a light, ‘We’ll try and work with the Welsh Government’. Don’t you accept there’s a much firmer, cast-iron guarantee commitment in Theresa May’s manifesto?

I don’t think that that’s something you were saying only a few months ago. In fact, I even read a quote from you a few months ago where you’d reduced the prices quite—. An arbitrary figure, I think, came out of thin air. Another u-turn; I’m not quite sure that the public will believe that. Anyway, while—[Interruption.] They’re not alone. I think it’s only fair and right to recognise the long-standing record of Members, as I said, like John Griffiths, Rosemary Butler, Paul Flynn and Jessica Morden, who’ve worked hard for many years on their long-standing and unwavering commitment to scrap the tolls.

Of course, I’m old enough to remember the days before the bridge, when we drove across in a coracle, as it seems to me in retrospect now, and I well remember—[Interruption.] I well remember the official opening ceremony of the bridge itself. I can welcome this conversion of my Conservative friends on this issue. It’s only a matter of months since, of course, they were raising all sorts of pettifogging objections to the policy that they now espouse. As the Minister for lifelong learning, from a sedentary position, has perspicaciously and mischievously observed, the Conservative party has now been converted to nationalisation as a principle. I’m not quite so sure that that is something that I would welcome, but nevertheless it just goes to show how fluid politics is today.

This, of course, is just the latest u-turn to be found at the hands of Theresa May, who is ‘Theresa May’ one day, and maybe ‘Theresa May Not’ the next, in the case of the social care changes announced recently. Indeed, the general election that we’re now having is itself a u-turn, because it wasn’t so long ago that she was saying, ‘We can’t possibly have one until 2020—totally unnecessary.’ But now it is. Nevertheless, we welcome the sinner that repenteth, and it is, of course, going to be a very, very good thing for south Wales to remove those tolls and the time delays that are involved in paying them.

As we know, south Wales, and particularly south-west Wales in my region of Mid and West Wales, has some of the poorest parts of western Europe. And with a GVA in Wales of only 75 per cent of the national average—the UK average—clearly something has to be done. The Welsh Government has only limited powers—economic powers—to improve the state of the economy in Wales. Not having the power to vary corporation tax is a significant restriction, obviously, on its power to do good, and the removal of these infrastructure inhibitions upon doing prosperous business in Wales is vitally important to changing the economic background that we’ve lived with all our lives and the depressing nature of the economy in some of the more depressed parts of the country. So, this is a bright gleam in the gloom, and I’m sure that it will be welcomed on all sides. I don’t know where it leaves Russell George, who so effectively advanced the case for this in his speech, whereas a few months ago he was the voice of caution about how it was all going to be paid for and what about the traffic volumes and impact, as Jayne Bryant spoke about so eloquently a moment ago. That’s all now evaporated in the spring sunshine. I give way.

You may recall there was a vote on this, and this group here supported in favour of the motion that you put forward on this.

Well, I have the Record in my hand, and the general rule is that—

Read it, then.

[Continues.]—your vote should follow your voice. And, in that debate, I think there was a certain amount of variation between the two. It may well be that the Conservative group has been infected by a defection in recent weeks. If so, that’s only to be welcomed, because there may be other changes to come in due course, no doubt. But it is of vital importance to the economy of the whole of south Wales, and the links that were mentioned in Nick Ramsay’s speech between Bristol and Monmouthshire are very important. It’s very important for the future that we develop those and that we don’t isolate ourselves across this side of the Severn bridge, which is one of the reasons why I think political independence for Wales would be such a disaster. If we had a hard border all the way down Offa’s Dyke then that, of course, would negate a great deal of the advantages that will come from the removal of the tolls. We hear a lot from Plaid Cymru on the doom and gloom that is likely to arise from a hard Brexit, but a hard UK-exit would be far, far worse, given that the Welsh economy depends far, far more on the economy of the United Kingdom than it does on the European Union.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

So, I warmly support this motion by the Welsh Conservatives this afternoon. I suppose that’s a reciprocation for their support for the UKIP motion in these terms that Russell George referred to a moment ago, which we had in a debate in this Chamber only a few months ago.

Not only did the Conservative group support my motion in November 2016 to scrap the tolls following their return to the public sector, but a Conservative Government in 1992, of which I think the previous Member may have been a Minister, legislated for those tolls to be scrapped following the return of those bridges to the public sector. I think one thing I just hugely welcome about this decision, for which the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State, and, frankly, this group as well—as well as others in this Assembly—deserve a lot of credit, is actually that politicians are doing what they promised. Having said, under the Severn Bridges Act, ‘This bridge will be built by the private sector. You’ll be able to raise tolls on it until a fixed sum is raised. It returns to the public sector, and then we will see tolls abolished’, we are doing that, and I think that is very good for the credibility of politicians, particularly when they are trying to fund and develop infrastructure. The idea suggested, I think from a sedentary position, by Alun Davies that this is a nationalisation is surely preposterous. It’s quite the reverse. The private sector has built this bridge—the southern bridge—under provisions from the public sector and the Severn Bridges Act, conditional on them giving it to the public sector once a certain sum has been raised. That is happening, and the UK Government, I’m delighted to say, is taking on a full commitment for the maintenance of those bridges out of the Highways England budget. I think it’s absolutely fantastic news. I also believe that the benefit to the Welsh economy may be even larger than suggested in a report, which I think was some years ago now, of a £107 million boost, because things have moved on since then. The economy is stronger, particularly along the M4 corridor. What we’ve seen in terms of prosperity and job generation in Bristol has been very strong in recent years.

Also, I think, for Wales and the south-east Wales region I represent, there is a return of confidence, and I think scrapping these tolls, along with electrification of the railway and improvement—15 or 20 minutes quicker to get to London once that electrification is complete, with, we hope, an M4 relief road—. And it is a serious point that there will be more congestion at the Brynglas tunnels once tolls are removed, and it does increase the importance of getting on with building that relief road. But I think in combination, and also with the south Wales metro, all those together will change what for a long time, I think, has been an unfair perception, to the extent others elsewhere may hold it, that there is a distance let alone any remoteness to south Wales. But when you bring those travel times down, I think you will link the south Wales economy much more closely with the M4 corridor, with Bristol, and with London, with the far higher GVAs we see in those areas, and I think there will be a huge boost to the economy of south Wales. I think it’s fantastic this Chamber voted unanimously to scrap the tolls and the UK Conservative Government are now delivering on that.

I’d also just like to speak briefly to the other part of the motion, about the north Wales growth deal. I think it’s very encouraging that the UK Government is developing an ever more flexible approach to how these growth deals are arranged. There’s been difference in terms of what’s devolved between different regions and also the degree of money put in by central Government. I think, for a period, there was a requirement that areas had to have an elected mayor for the metro region if they were going to go down that route. That has now been removed, at least for rural or, I think, mixed rural-urban areas, and whether that’s a choice or whether that’s something that’s right for north Wales I hope will be driven by north Wales and what people there think of the proposition.

But I think the flexibility is particularly important for north Wales because nowhere more than Deeside, even with the Newport-Bristol links—. I think that agglomeration of economic activity across the England-Wales border around Deeside is hugely important for generating the future prosperity of the region, but also I think makes it very difficult to have, in some ways, a national border running through that agglomeration. Even if we can’t have a growth deal that crosses a border, I do hope that the north Wales growth deal will be particularly sensitive to those unique needs, given how closely integrated the economy in those parts is. While there’s great flexibility, I think, from UK Government, I hope that will be matched by Welsh Government and that there will be a real appreciation that devolution should not end at Cardiff Bay. For north Wales in particular, as well as the references to mid and west Wales, we need a sensitivity and we need particular solutions that are going to be right for them, just as scrapping the Severn tolls is so right for south Wales.

In the same way that the European regional development fund takes a certain collection of criteria to divide Wales in two, so does the city deal model, for all its many advantages, run the risk of doing the same. It’s hard to conceive, quite frankly, how most of Powys will feel the ripples of the big urban investment within Wales itself. Russell George is quite right to talk about the flexibility and the ability to start looking east. It’s not just north Wales, Mark Reckless, that needs that element of flexibility.

Some years down the line, post Brexit, regional policy of course may look very, very different, as we find strategic and planning levers in unexpected places. The very concept of regional support may be shaped by considerations that we may not even have started to explore yet. More balance in the economy within Wales, as well as within the UK, isn’t going to happen if we simply replicate what we’re doing under EU structures. But, in the short to medium term, Wales is right to take advantage of UK regional policy to maximise the potential of the two city deals and the north Wales growth deal.

It is a glorious opportunity to show how Governments and local authorities of different political stripes can work with common purpose. If local squabbling or uninspired ambition or even lack of confidence means that these golden opportunities are squandered, then it makes a mockery of devolution and any claim we have to be big thinkers in a small country.

And, in that short to medium term, we need to keep our eyes on inequity in Wales and remember that, for all the very welcome focus on the city deal in my region, it is not to my constituents’ advantage if their rural neighbours to the north conclude that they can’t live on scenery and head south in droves to jobs, schools, and houses that the city deal will prompt but which aren’t there yet.

So, I pay tribute to Russell George, who began exploring what a rural deal might look like in Wales back in the last Assembly. I’m pleased that the idea is gaining traction, as indeed Paul Davies’s longstanding campaign on the tolls on the Cleddau bridge is gaining traction. It’s with that spirit of common purpose that I say how dismayed I am to see the Government’s amendments regarding the Severn bridge tolls. Although I’m very pleased to say that Jayne Bryant did say that she welcomed the Prime Minister’s commitment on this, because our motion doesn’t claim that the Prime Minister has the sole intellectual property to the idea of the toll-free Severn bridge. It is inviting Members simply to welcome her commitment to doing this, a commitment coming from someone who will actually be in a position to scrap those tolls. By deleting that point, Welsh Government does not welcome a commitment that can actually be delivered by a UK Government for the benefit of Wales, preferring instead to have a bit of a sulk because they didn’t get a shout-out. You even missed the opportunity to mention Jeremy Corbyn’s take on the tolls, so I’m assuming that you either don’t foresee him being in a position to deliver that or that you can’t bear the thought that it’s he who seeks to be in a position to deliver that.

And so I come to amendment 3, which we will be supporting. I hope I don’t need to reiterate that the Welsh Conservatives are completely committed to the Swansea tidal lagoon, both here and in Parliament, and the First Minister’s been gracious enough to acknowledge that in this very Chamber very recently. Arguments across the range from its catalyst effect in reliable clean energy production, to its catalyst effects for domestic economic regeneration, to its catalyst effect on our reputation in the eyes of the world—this is absolutely a no-brainer. But even so, we cannot conveniently ditch the hours of argument made by all parties and both Governments dedicated to tackling fuel poverty, lowering energy costs for industry and capping energy prices, which have been balanced with other arguments demonstrating a growing interest in safe energy supply and clean air. That balance is difficult to manage, it’s difficult to find and it takes careful dealings with it from a responsible Government. The last thing the lagoon needs now is Corbynomics. Diving in at this point and saying ‘Give us the lagoon at any cost’ is giving up. It is saying that neither the company nor the UK Government—nor the UK Government—has more to give on this to get us nearer that delicate balance and that balance that means a positive decision on funding.

Now, perhaps there was probably a bit more that the Welsh Government could’ve helped with—I don’t know, maybe something like cheaper finance through Welsh Government streams rather than 100 per cent private investment. I genuinely don’t know—it’s a bit late now, anyway—but where the Welsh Government can act is to ensure that the timeline for granting marine licences is aligned with the timeline for the major projects for which those licences are needed. And this time—

David Rees rose—

I’ve only got 20 seconds, sorry, David. This time, the slow progress in London has disguised a serious delay here and I don’t think any of us would be proud if devolved responsibilities were the sole reason that the lagoon were held back. And with Wylfa B ahead of us, I don’t think marine licences should be what we’re all talking about down the line.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, Ken Skates.

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I start by thanking Members across the Chamber for their contributions today and for giving me an opportunity to respond to this debate? As a Government, we are absolutely determined to spread prosperity, growth and opportunity across Wales to generate prosperity for all, and that is the foundation upon which the work to refresh our economic strategy and develop the economy of each region is to be based. The Severn tolls, given their strategic importance to Wales, are very much part of that thinking. We’ve been in regular discussions with the UK Government about the tolls to ensure that future arrangements represent the best deal for Wales and we’ve made it clear on many occasions that the tolls on the bridge are an unfair tax on our people and on our businesses. It’s a barrier to business activity across the bridge, hampering Welsh growth and acting as a deterrent to inward investment, as Members have identified. In particular, the tolls adversely affect small businesses looking to operate in the south-west of England, as well as those engaged in the tourism, logistics and transport sectors, which rely heavily on Severn crossings links for their businesses.

A number of Members have identified our 2012 study—the one that we commissioned—which concluded that removing the tolls would increase the GVA of south Wales by £107 million. Although GVA has grown faster in Wales than across the UK as an average in recent times, we believe that the increase in GVA presented by the removal by the tolls would offer a huge boost to the regional economy. I would agree with Mark Reckless as well that the sum could be in excess of £107 million, and I also welcome his assertion that the economy today is now stronger along the M4 and that there’s a returning confidence to south Wales—that is, of course, thanks to this Welsh Labour Government.

Despite the Conservatives’ support at Westminster now for abolishing the tolls, the last time we debated the Severn crossings here in the Chamber, the UK Government’s opposition to removing the tolls was very clear. But, I am glad to see that the weak and wobbly position adopted by the Prime Minister has finally, albeit reluctantly, come around to a better position—one that has been championed by this Welsh Labour Government over many, many years.

Will the Cabinet Secretary take an intervention?

Of course, yes.

You were saying that this has been championed over many, many years. When I asked the First Minister, he said it had been championed since the Labour manifesto in 2016. I think prior to that, he’d suggested keeping the tolls to fund the relief road.

Many, many months.

Many, many months—and two years, indeed. Can I thank Mark Reckless for taking a very consistent position on this matter himself? He’s not taken such a consistent position on which political party he should be a member of, but on this issue he has remained very consistent indeed.

Turning to our priorities for north Wales, I should say that I was very pleased to be able to attend earlier today the inaugural meeting of the north Wales group on cross-border issues, chaired by my colleague Hannah Blythyn, where we discussed a number of important matters that will be faced by the region and that we must face here in the Assembly in years to come. It’s my view—and I share the view of Russell George in his assertion of the potential of the cross-border economy—that north Wales’s growth deal bid must be dovetailed with the growth deal that is emerging on the English side of the border through the Cheshire and Warrington Local Enterprise Partnership. They must be complementary and must also seek to build on the existing capabilities of the cross-border area of the Mersey-Dee and north Wales region.

I think it’s absolutely essential that the case for a north Wales growth deal is maintained—one that does reflect the cross-border nature of the economy. In terms of transport alone—and transport will be a critical element of the growth deal, I have no doubt—this Welsh Labour Government has already committed to spending more than £200 million on resolving the Deeside corridor, which, of course, is crucial. Mark Reckless identified the Deeside area as being a primary engine for the Welsh economy. Well, that single route—that A494—is critically important and requires upgrading, and I’m very pleased to be consulting with the public on the two proposals that we have developed for the A494 and the A55. But we’re also looking at investing tens of millions of pounds in rail infrastructure, even though we are not responsible for it—the UK Government is—to enhance capacity in north-east Wales, developing the metro concept, but also looking at investing considerable sums in resolving pinch points in the trunk road network and, of course, taking forward the important third crossing for the Menai. Of course, one of the biggest single boosts that could be given to the economy of north Wales would be the electrification of the north Wales main line, but I fear that that has not yet been promised by the UK Government, certainly not in the near future.

Returning to the contribution made by Russell George, I thought his contribution specifically with regard to mid Wales was absolutely essential. North-south links are crucial to the economy and mid Wales makes a vital contribution to the culture and economy of Wales. I also believe that whilst the north-south links are significant indeed, so too are east-west ties. I see three primary arcs of prosperity emerging for Wales: one that crosses north Wales, one that crosses mid and west Wales and a third that spans south Wales—all three potentially benefitting from cross-border collaboration and ties. I’m very keen—

Andrew R.T. Davies rose—

In a moment. I’m very keen, in terms of supporting mid Wales, to look at how we can turbocharge the activities of Growing Mid Wales, which is an important partnership. Certainly, insofar as a growth deal for mid Wales is concerned, I’d be very keen to see what the UK Government, however 8 June pans out, actually looks at delivering as part of an expanded offer of growth deals, potentially, for the UK. I’ll take an intervention by the leader of the Conservatives.

I’m grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for taking the intervention and, in particular, his emphasis on the whole of Wales—mid and north Wales as well. If I could draw his attention back to south-east Wales, it is excellent news that the Conservatives—and, indeed, I think there’s a consensus now, politically, that tolls need to be got rid of on the Severn bridge across parties. But there’s a real issue, as we heard from the Member for Newport West, that with house prices being so much lower this side of the Severn bridge, and the huge economic activity that is going in the Bristol area and, indeed, in the greater south-west area, actually, wealth in your arc of prosperity ends up travelling out of Wales and we end up being a commuter belt. I’d be grateful to understand how the department is going to work with local authorities, and businesses in particular, to make sure that businesses locate here to drive wages up, and we don’t just become a dormitory.

This is, in part, what I was just going to come on to in my final point: the important structural element of the Welsh economy that needs to be resolved as part of a new economic strategy. We need to ensure that productivity increases. We need to ensure that our manufacturing base, in particular, is future-proofed against automation. And, crucially, in regard to avoiding dormitory communities, that we raise skills levels of the people of Wales so that we can capture more of the work, more of the economic benefits of infrastructure investments, not just as a dormitory territory serving the south-west, but for the south-east of Wales and, indeed, the whole of the south of Wales. It’s our keen intent to ensure that, through a new place-based approach for economic development, working with leaders of the city deals in the south and the growth deal in the north and, potentially, a growth deal in mid Wales, we do move towards creating opportunities to grow wealth across Wales, and deliver prosperity for all.

I call on Mark Isherwood to reply to the debate.

Diolch. Thank you everybody who’s spoken in this debate. Thank you to Russell George for opening this by welcoming the economic boost to the Welsh economy being delivered by the UK Government’s abolition of the Severn crossing tolls, showing that Wales is open for business. And also for emphasising the need for north and mid Wales growth deals, where people and businesses in north and mid Wales not only look south to Government, but in terms of their economic and social lives, they look east for their cross-border movements, and also west to Ireland. We need to, as he said, cement north Wales as an intrinsic part of an exciting cross-border economic region linked up to the Northern Powerhouse. He said the Welsh Government must also devolve economic levers to mid Wales.

Dai Lloyd supported the abolition of the Severn crossing tolls and the devolution of powers to the Welsh regions—it’s very heartening to hear that—and shared his in-depth knowledge of bridge tolls across Britain. I suggest he writes more about that; I’d actually be very interested to read about that. Of course, there are no tolls on the Menai bridge, but we do need the third Menai crossing, something that Ken Skates, of course, referred to. It is nearly a decade since the Welsh Government last commissioned an independent report on options for that, which made recommendations. It’s a shame we’ve had to wait this long for groundhog day to arrive all over again, but I hope the Minister’s aspiration of having a decision to move forward by 2021 is reached for all concerned.

Dai Lloyd extolled the virtues of the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, as did many others, and emphasised the need to electrify the Valleys lines and the north Wales coast line, something the Welsh Conservatives certainly strongly support.

Nick Ramsay referred again to the Prime Minister’s decision to scrap tolls on the Severn crossing as a game-changer, with exciting prospects for the good people and economy of Monmouthshire. He referred to the GVA figures in the south Wales Valleys, of course, part of the west Wales and Valleys sub-region, which has had the lowest value of goods and services produced per head of population, or GVA, across the 12 UK nations and regions for almost now 20 years—for 19 years; the whole period of devolution. Unfortunately, the relative gap has widened, and even the most prosperous corner of north Wales and the north-east has seen the relative figure against the UK level fall from almost 100 per cent of UK GVA to just 84 per cent. He’s emphasised the need for the Welsh Government to work closely with the UK Government. It is critical that the next UK Government is seen, whatever its colour, as a positive partner with the Welsh Government and by the Welsh Government.

Jayne Bryant again emphasised the importance of the Severn crossing, in this case to Newport, another wonderful place not so far from here. I regret the partisan comments that followed—I won’t respond to those other than to acknowledge we are in a general election period. The UK Government, in fact, announced tolls in 1962. It is this UK Government that has announced it’s going to scrap them. As she said, there are risks—or possibly costs and benefits—of attracting people from Bristol, which might have an impact on house prices, and there is a need to support local young people onto the housing ladder here and everywhere else, especially given that Wales had the largest cuts in affordable housing budgets after devolution of any UK nation. It’s important you referred to another u-turn, but in my mind it’s strong leaders who listen and decide; it’s weak leaders who ignore the facts and shoot the messenger, sadly something we hear too often in certain other places.

Neil Hamilton again welcomed Theresa May’s announcement, with a few added generous comments to my party and his former party. As he said, political independence for Wales would be a disaster—as it would be, may I add, for the rest of the UK.

Mark Reckless pointed out it was the Conservative Government in 1992 that legislated to scrap the tolls following the return of the bridges to the public sector and that the Conservative Government was now delivering on that. He said that this will add to a return of confidence along the M4 corridor, strengthening links between south Wales, Bristol and London. He referred to the sensitive and flexible way the UK Government was approaching regional development in Wales as encouraging, but it needs to be matched by the Welsh Government.

Suzy Davies said the post-Brexit regional policy may look very different in the future, but it was right for Wales to take advantage of UK regional policy now. As she said—the wonderful phrase—big thinkers in a small country. We should welcome the commitment coming from the Prime Minister rather than go, as she said, into a bit of a sulk. Welsh Conservatives are committed to the Swansea bay tidal lagoon, as acknowledged by the Prime Minister to us, as Suzy emphasised. The last thing, as she said, the lagoon needs now is Corbynomics.

The Cabinet Secretary then responded by saying the Welsh Government is determined to spread prosperity across Wales—it’s just a shame that since 1998, we’ve remained the part of the UK with the lowest GVA. As he said, the Severn bridge tolls are a barrier, which is why Theresa May has announced she’s removing them. He then made a weak and wobbly proposition that confidence is returning to south Wales thanks to the Welsh Government. In reality, most things have been going backwards since devolution—not because of devolution but because of government—but it’s interesting that the improvement in jobs and employment and inward investment has happened since the Conservative Prime Minister and Conservative-led Government took office in 2010. It certainly wasn’t happening beforehand. I regret he resorted to a petty personalised attack against a colleague. I’ll say no more about that.

He referred to the north Wales and Mersey Dee cross-party group meeting today. I also attended. I welcome his attendance. I think I was elected as a joint deputy chair of that group. There’s critical work to do. The growth deals on each side of the border, the Cabinet Secretary said, must be complementary. No, Cabinet Secretary—this is a single growth deal for both sides of that border. That’s why we have the Mersey Dee Alliance, that’s why Warrington were represented there today but why also Gwynedd was represented there today. We wonder, in the future, perhaps if Ireland could be engaging with us as well.

He referred to the Deeside corridor consultation. In fact, it’s nine years, I believe, since the last scheme had to be scrapped by the Welsh Government after its proposals were—[Interruption.] Would you like to stand?

Is it not true that you campaigned against that scheme?

Yes, I campaigned against that 13-lane monstrosity in support of local people, which your colleagues actually did when they realised there was an election just a couple of months ahead. I gave evidence to that consultation. I hope that what comes out this time is more in keeping with the sustainability needs of the local community.

You talked about enhanced rail capacity in north-east Wales. It would be wonderful if the Welsh Government could catch up with the Mersey district, the Liverpool districts, and actually announce that it’s going to support and invest in this side of the border so the Halton Curve proposals do not simply end at the border. Similarly, it would be nice if the Welsh Government could announce it was going to restore the two miles it removed from the Wrexham-Chester line.

He referred to a third crossing of the Menai. Again, we had a consultation—I believe eight or nine years ago—which made a series of recommendations. It appears it’s groundhog day there as well because we’re having another consultation on options for a Menai crossing—I referred to that earlier. But as he said, we need to ensure productivity increases and futureproof against automation through a new place-based approach, working with the UK Government-supported growth deal in north Wales, through the city deals in south Wales, and hopefully through a mid Wales growth deal, too. But that will require the Welsh Government to recognise that the proposals of a north Wales growth vision and in the bid that’s going forward require it to give up some power to the region also. Thank you very much indeed.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.