Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:35 pm on 4 July 2017.
I’d like to thank Paul Davies for his contribution and for his questions, and, indeed, all Members in the Chamber, for the keen interest that has been shown in the development of this legislation over quite a lengthy period of time of their continued interest in the subject matter.
The historic environment is crucially important, not just to national and community pride, but also to the economy. As I said in my statement, it employs more than 40,000 people, is hugely important to the tourism sector, contributing something in the region of £900 million to the economy annually, and, therefore, it is right and proper that we make the preservation and promotion of the historic environment a priority for Welsh Government.
I’m going to address first of all the question concerning local government capacity, because, of course, this is crucially important in the successful delivery of the provisions within legislation. I do recognise that there are severe pressures on local government, and, in particular, on non-statutory areas of service delivery, such as conservation, not just here in Wales, but right across the UK. And those pressures are likely to continue; they will not improve, given the likely level of expenditure reductions across the public sector. And that’s why I set up the task and finish group, led by Cadw and the Welsh Local Government Association, to consider the resilience and also the capacity of conservation services across Wales, and to identify options for collaboration in response to issues such as the consistency of advice that can be offered, timeliness in making decisions, tackling buildings that are at risk, and also the ability to utilise new powers.
I’m not aware of any pushback from local government to the historic environment Act. However, I am determined to ensure that local government has the tools, expertise, and the capacity to be able to properly and fully protect the historic environment. It’s one of the reasons why I think it’s important that regional delivery is considered with regard to conservation, and that’s something that I know my friend and colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government is keen to pursue and to promote.
I’m in touch on the question of the historic environment records, sometimes conflated with the lists of local interest. The historic environment records are a statutory historic environment record that exists in the UK, the only historic records that exist in the United Kingdom. The four regional Welsh archaeological trusts are discharging the duty to compile and keep these up to date, rather than the local authorities. And those archaeological trusts, which are supported by Welsh Government, I have to say are doing an exceptional job in ensuring that the records are properly maintained and properly kept up to date. They are available through the Archwilio website, which has been established specifically for the historic environment records. And all new records created after 1 April 2016 are available bilingually.
To support this, statutory guidance on historic environment records has been issued for local and national park authorities, and also for Natural Resources Wales, and the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales will be monitoring the standards and also the service levels of the historic environment records. That’s to ensure that they are maintained and monitored by those trusts that are responsible for them on a consistent basis. It will also include coordinating and validating audits, on a five-year cycle.
The Member also asked about buildings, and, in particular, buildings that are at risk, and whether local authorities are currently utilising the new powers available to them for urgent works. There is no magic bullet for dealing with buildings at risk. But we have supported local authorities in preparing buildings-at-risk registers. And new guidance on tackling heritage at risk, and managing change to listed buildings, was published on 31 May, on the same day the provisions relating to urgent works to listed buildings came into force, giving additional powers to local authorities. But I do recognise that there is still more to do. So, the provision made for the introduction of preservation notices in the historic environment Act I think also gives us the opportunity to develop new measures to address the often intractable challenges posed by decaying listed buildings.
But, in specific regard to urgent works, local planning authorities are often deterred from using the powers that they have by the prospect of legal complications, and, even more so, the prospect of financial loss. The 2016 Act has made the use of urgent works easier by extending it to any listed building, provided that it does not unreasonably interfere with residential use, and it also reduces financial risk by making any costs incurred a local land charge upon which, as the Member identified, interest can be charged until fully recovered.
I think it’s too early to assess whether this has been successful. Plans are in place, Presiding Officer, to collect data from across the provisions in the Act and to inform formal evaluation of the Act. It’s anticipated that it will be five years before sufficient data are available to measure whether the Act and the associated measures have made a difference to the protection and the management of the historic environment. That applies equally to the effectiveness of TAN 24, which the Member also raised.
Then, in terms of Historic Wales and the work of the steering group, my officials are currently developing the business case for change within Cadw. That will consider the options for Cadw’s future, including a consideration of any improvements that can be made to the status quo. But, whatever the outcome, it will also highlight best practice, which will help shape the future of the organisation. I think it’s too early to pre-empt whether any legislative change will be required, but, if it is required, then this, of course, will in turn impact on the timescale for delivery and the advisory body that I spoke about.
The Member also raised questions regarding historic parks and gardens—specifically, when I anticipate the statutory register will be brought into force. Given that Cadw is currently engaging with owners and occupiers, notifying them, and that this work will carry on into the first part of 2018, I anticipate that the register will be brought into force in the summer of next year. In terms of any changes to the boundaries, owners and occupiers of registered parks and historic gardens are being notified in the current year.
I’m going to move on to other provisions that the Member asked about—provisions or measures that have not yet been introduced. Heritage partnership agreements still require work. That’s because we want to make sure that they are developed on the basis of sound evidence. So, we are currently looking for partners that can take part in pilot schemes to ensure that heritage partnership agreements are effective. They have been widely welcomed within the sector, but, in order to make sure that they operate most successfully, I think it’s important that we have the right partners to develop pilot schemes that we can base future agreements on.
Also, there were other areas of work that I outlined where there is further effort to be made in ensuring that the Act can be delivered in full. This work includes some of the points that I raised in my statement concerning powers available to local authorities concerning the disrepair of listed buildings where owners have potentially deliberately allowed listed buildings to fall into disrepair. I outlined how regulations would have to be genuinely useful to local authorities and contribute positively to the resolution of the challenges that are presented to local authorities, and so a sound evidence base is still required for that particular piece of work.
As I’ve said, we also believe that we will need the input of stakeholders right across the historic environment sector to shape effective legislation if it is to be brought forward.