8. 7. Debate: Considering the Case for New Taxes in Wales

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:29 pm on 4 July 2017.

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Photo of Mr Neil Hamilton Mr Neil Hamilton UKIP 5:29, 4 July 2017

Well, that is, perhaps, true, within the European Union, and this is the position that Luxembourg finds itself in, of course, presided over so successfully by Mr Juncker for so many years. It’s rather, perhaps, paradoxical that the EU Commission wants to wipe out the opportunities of that kind for the rest of Europe. But outside the EU, we do have the opportunity to be internationally competitive in terms of corporate taxes, and I hope that the opportunity will come to us to enable us to do that in due course. Edmund Burke famously said that:

‘To tax and to please, no more than to love and to be wise, is not given to men.’

And, if you make a proposal to tax Peter to pay Paul, that will always be very popular with Paul and not popular with Peter. So, these are not easy equations to sum, but I’m not generally in favour of using taxes for reasons of social engineering, and I’ve made this point in relation to the sugar tax proposed only recently, and to which we’ll no doubt return at length in due course. But what I do think we should do is use the tax system to encourage wealth creation. Whilst taxes in themselves don’t encourage wealth creation—by definition, almost—nevertheless, the difference between taxes in one jurisdiction and another can certainly do that.

Our problem in Wales in many respects was pointed out by the Bevan Foundation in their publication on devolved taxes in Wales just two years ago, that 48 per cent of the population of Wales live within 25 miles of the border with England, and 2.7 million people—that’s 90 per cent of the total population of Wales—live within 50 miles of the border. Taking England and Wales as a whole, 16 million people in Wales and England live within 50 miles of the border between the two countries, compared with only 3 million living within 50 miles of the England-Scotland border. So, it is, in many ways, more difficult for us to take decisions that make us less competitive through the tax system, but actually more beneficial for us to use the tax system in the way that I started off by describing. So, we have greater opportunity to take advantage of a differential tax regime compared with England, and I do believe that that can make a significant contribution towards raising the level of income and therefore the standard of living of ordinary people in Wales. In the United Kingdom generally, it is interesting that, over the last generation, the proportion of revenue derived from higher earners has increased as tax rates generally have fallen. And I think there is a lesson for us in all that.

I see I’ve reached the end of the road for my speech, Llywydd, but will leave this as work in progress for the future. But I welcome today’s debate and I’ll certainly support the Government motion, as well as the Conservative amendments.