Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 2:50 pm on 18 July 2017.
Diolch Llywydd. The First Minister frequently says that he accepts the referendum result, but, of course, he doesn’t really. He’s like those Japanese soldiers who used occasionally to be found in the Borneo jungles years after 1945 still fighting the war as though it had never been ended. This is another opportunity for the First Minister to grandstand on an issue where the Welsh people voted a different way from him in the referendum campaign. There is nothing in this Bill whatsoever that will reduce the powers of this Assembly or undermine the devolution settlement. What we’re doing via this Bill is actually devolving powers from Brussels to Westminster and, ultimately, to Cardiff, and devolving them from people whom we not only don’t elect and can’t dismiss, but can’t even name—the people who are the ultimate decision makers in the EU by opaque processes—[Interruption.]—opaque processes that are far removed from a democratic institution such as this.
The First Minister in his introduction to his speech today mentioned the charter of fundamental rights. This is a very good case in point. When Tony Blair was Prime Minister, this, by the way, was the document that the then Minister for Europe, Mr Keith Vaz, described as being of no greater binding force in law than ‘The Beano’. He said that in 2000, and yet the European Court then decided that it was actually binding in European law upon us, and yet Tony Blair had said quite categorically in 2007, ‘Let us make it absolutely clear that we have secured an opt-out from the charter’—an opt-out that was illusory. So, what the First Minister is doing, of course, is trying to accommodate himself to a decision made just over a year ago of which he did not approve.
The Bill says, in clause 11, that there is nothing that this institution was able to do before exit that it will not be able to do in future. And yes, of course, there is a period of transition. The First Minister is always saying that the process of delivering Brexit is so complicated that we need an extended period of transition in order to bring it about. Well, that is, to an extent, right, and that is what this Bill proposes. The Prime Minister has said on many occasions, and other Ministers, including the Secretary of State for Wales, have said many times that there is no intention on the part of the UK Government to undermine or detract from the devolution settlement. On 29 March this year, the Prime Minister said in the House of Commons,
‘no decisions currently taken by the devolved Administrations will be removed from them.’
Now, that is a categorical statement, and I see no evidence whatsoever for saying that the Prime Minister did not intend that to be carried out and nor does she now. Indeed, it’s fanciful to imagine that a cataclysmic change of the kind that the First Minister fears could possibly take place today. He complains that we can’t trust the Government. Well, we can’t trust the House of Commons and the House of Lords as the houses of Parliament. Well, that is true of the existing devolution settlement. It’s always been possible for the United Kingdom Parliament to repeal all the devolution statutes if it wants to, but nobody seriously expects that consequence ever to arise, certainly not in our lifetime. So, this is a wholly illusory manufactured crisis for temporary political advantage as the First Minister sees it.
The process of withdrawal from the European Union is going to be complicated because of the volume of legislation that has been generated by the EU, usually by wholly undemocratic means, over the last 44 years. European Union regulations—which originated in the Council of Ministers, it’s true, voted on by the Council of Ministers, but over which we have no direct control from the legislative institutions of the United Kingdom—apply to Wales. At least now, by devolving these powers temporarily to Westminster and, ultimately, to Cardiff, it’ll be elected politicians who are answerable for the decisions that are taken, and we will have a means of participating in the process. I do accept that the First Minister has a point in saying that there should have been proper consultation between UK Ministers and Welsh Ministers in recent months. He’s absolutely right to say it, and I do believe it is disrespectful to the Welsh Government and to this Assembly for them not to have done so, but, nevertheless, I don’t think that we should confuse that with the political reality that the British people, and the Welsh people, voted to leave the European Union on 23 June last year, and there has to be a legislative process to bring that about. Because of the volume of legislation and the complexity of legislation that is concerned here, it is impossible to make all the detailed changes in the short time that is available to us before the end of the two-year period—