6. 5. Statement from the Chair of the Finance Committee: Fiscal Reform — Lessons from Scotland

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:41 pm on 19 July 2017.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Mr Simon Thomas Mr Simon Thomas Plaid Cymru 3:41, 19 July 2017

I thank Nick Ramsay. Can I assure him that I took the train back to Aberystwyth, so I’m sure I suffered alongside him, and a very pleasant journey it was as well? I think the key point that he was making around the role that the Finance Committee can play, and one of the reasons, he’ll be aware, that I wanted to bring this statement to the Chamber, was that, in the Finance Committee, we don’t want this just to be a debate in the Finance Committee, but something that involves all Assembly Members, and vibrant to be aware that this is a pace of change that we haven’t seen for some—well, we’ve never seen before because we haven’t seen fiscal devolution before. The pace of change around our scrutiny of the budget, around the budget process itself, will be enormous in these next two or three years, and I think everyone needs to get across that, and that’s one of the reasons, I hope, for bringing the Finance Committee’s own deliberations out into the open, into the whole Chamber, as well. So, we do have that important role to play, and I think our most relevant role at the moment is to look at and examine very carefully what the lessons are in places like Scotland, what the lesson is of a legislative approach to budgeting, and to try and apply those to Wales.

But I would agree with the point that he makes around a bespoke arrangement in Wales. I’m not—. I would not advocate—and I don’t think he does, either—just copying from Scotland or copying from other parts of the United Kingdom, or, indeed, other devolved legislatures elsewhere. We do want an arrangement that is bespoke for Wales and suits not only our scrutiny arrangements, but also the ability of the Welsh Government to propose budgets that are based on the most available and best data and the best information possible.

In that regard, as well, I would take up his point, really, around where we go further forward. What we have in place, I would agree with him, is robust enough for the current arrangements, but as we have future devolution, I think the example of the fiscal commission in Scotland is an interesting one to look at and examine. We don’t need it today, but maybe in two or three years, particularly, perhaps, in the next Assembly when we have fuller exercise of the income tax powers, when, perhaps, we will have had an election where people will have pitched an election debate around raising or lowering income tax. Then we will need a very clear pair of independent eyes on proposals coming forward from whichever Government, whichever party they are. So, I thank the Member for his company in Edinburgh as well, but just to say that we did learn a lot there, but we also learnt that, though we sometimes look elsewhere and think that they’re doing much better than us, when you get down to some of the detail, I think we don’t do quite so badly ourselves either.