5. 4. Statement: The EU (Withdrawal) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:00 pm on 19 September 2017.

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Photo of Carwyn Jones Carwyn Jones Labour 4:00, 19 September 2017

[Interruption.] Discuss. Discuss. So, it’s hugely important that we have that level of engagement from the UK Government. We have not yet had a Joint Ministerial Committee plenary. It’s right to say that other JMCs are planned, but, on this most important issue, nothing—no agreement to a meeting, even. Now that, clearly, is not helpful as far as the future is concerned, particularly as we look to develop structures that will enable us to agree common ways forward in the future. On a side issue, but just to give Members a flavour of the difficulties we’re facing at the moment, ourselves and the Scottish Government have argued that there is a dispute that needs to be resolved between us and the UK Government over the financial settlement to Northern Ireland. We argue that it drives a coach and horses, we think, quite reasonably, in terms of the argument, through the Barnett formula, in providing extra money, extra revenue funding, for health and education for Northern Ireland outside of that formula. We argue there’s a dispute. The UK Government does not accept there is a dispute, and so the dispute resolution process, they argue, can’t even be triggered. So, if we have a dispute with the UK Government and they disagree there’s a dispute at all, they win every single time. Now that can’t possibly be right. That’s why we need to put in place a structure that’s more robust, a structure that recognises the fact that there are four nations within the UK. We need to see more engagement from the UK Government to make sure that we are able to protect the interests of Wales. The offer is made by the Member for there to be cross-party engagement. I have no difficulty in working in that way with him. I’ve seen that that’s happened in Scotland. I see no reason why we shouldn’t move ahead with this in Wales. There will be disagreements—of course there will—over certain aspects, but, when it comes to the fundamental rights of this institution, elected by the people of Wales, I believe that there really should be common ground between us, and that is that powers should rest where they’re meant to rest, and that means those powers coming back to Wales without the need for interception from Whitehall.