Well, I’d love to have more documentation, but what we’ve found out is that you have had conversations with the UK Government. You’ve given them a list of potential sites from Wales. As I understand it—and, again, I’m happy to be corrected—you did not need to give the Ministry of Justice that list. In fact, it would take them putting a compulsory purchase Order on that land, should it come to it. So, from legal advice I’ve sought from the National Assembly, there is no compulsion on you, Cabinet Secretary, to have given them that list. And, if I’m wrong, then, again, I’m happy for you to intervene or to tell me in your reaction to what I say here today. I also understand, from an e-mail I’ve seen from our local councillor Nigel Hunt in Port Talbot, that you have actually disposed of that land to the MOJ. So, again, if that is not correct, then please—. That’s an e-mail he, I think, has had with the local council. If that’s not the case, then, again, I’d like to have clarification. We are, of course, seeking to get answers wherever we possibly can. This is not an attempt to undermine anybody. We’re trying to get answers all along the way.

I’d like to end these remarks by saying I would like to praise the work of the working group in Port Talbot, which includes members of different parties—and everybody wants to work positively to keep this land for industrial development and business development—who are working together for the future of the town and for the future of Wales. And we do not want to have the scraps from Westminster in the guise of this huge prison, because I worry, and others worry—because they tell me—that this prison will have irreversible side effects on the area. We don’t want to have this prison imposed on us. In fact, people in Wrexham did not want to have the prison imposed on them, but they were told that there would be more spaces for Welsh prisoners, and yet we’ve seen articles in Welsh papers only yesterday telling us that there are not those Welsh prisoners in Her Majesty’s Prison Berwyn. So, what is the rationale, therefore, for building these superprisons in Wales? I’ll tell you what it is, but not in my words, but by a former prisoner interviewed by ‘The Guardian’—sorry, a prisoner, not a former prisoner—at HMP Oakwood in Wolverhampton. He says:

‘You pull [Wormwood] Scrubs down, you can make it into flats worth millions. Let’s cut the’— beep—

‘That’s why they are doing it. It is easier and cheaper to warehouse everyone in Wales.’

That’s what’s happening.