Item 5 is the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Rural Affairs on the bovine TB eradication programme. I call on Lesley Griffiths to introduce her statement.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Members will recall my statement in June where I set out my plans to enhance the TB eradication programme in Wales, and 1 October marked the start of an enhanced approach to TB eradication—one that has proved successful in other countries that have either eradicated this disease, or are well on their way to doing so.

This regionalised approach to disease eradication, with the creation of low, intermediate and high TB areas across Wales, enables us to deal differently and proportionately with the disease in each of our TB areas on a targeted basis, depending on the local disease risks and drivers. This approach also enables us to focus our efforts on protecting and expanding the low TB area and driving down disease and reducing the size of the intermediate and high TB areas.

In June, I launched our enhanced TB eradication programme and first delivery plan, which provides details of evidence-based controls that are being applied in each region from this week. All cattle keepers in Wales have been advised by letter of the TB area in which their farm is located, and my officials have undertaken a full programme of engagement with key stakeholders, including farmers, vets, auctioneers and valuers.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Through the regionalised approach to TB eradication, we’ve established a low TB area. Epidemiological analysis of surveillance data shows the majority, if not all, TB breakdowns in the low TB area are the result of undetected infection brought in through cattle movements from other areas. This evidence of non-endemic disease in the low TB area means we are now in a position to change the way we deal with testing. One of the main changes is the removal of the pre-movement testing requirement of cattle moved within or from the low TB area. Pre-movement testing has been in place in Wales since 2006 and it still remains a valuable tool in the intermediate and high TB areas in order to identify infection before it spreads.

However, we have introduced post-movement testing for cattle brought in from a higher disease area. We recognise no TB test is perfect, so introducing an additional test at the farm of destination provides double assurance of the TB status of cattle moved into the low TB area. We will monitor and review the success of this policy before considering whether it is appropriate to expand its roll-out to the intermediate TB area next year.

Exempt finishing units in Wales are currently being phased out due to the relatively high number of TB breakdowns in this type of operation and the inherent risk of disease spread. To put this change into perspective, there are around 20 EFUs currently in existence in Wales and all operators have been contacted in respect of the options available to them.

To protect the Welsh Government from the cost of the highest value animals, a cap on TB compensation of £5,000 payable per animal has been introduced. The proportion of animals affected by this change will be small. Last year, of the total number of cattle valued for TB purposes, only 68 animals—less than 1 per cent—were valued at over £5,000. If a cap had been in place last year, a saving of just under £200,000 would have been made—a saving that is important in the context of the loss of European Union funding post 2018.

Provision and implementation of bespoke action plans for persistent TB breakdowns lasting 18 months or longer continues. These are being drawn up, in consultation with the farmer, by the Animal and Plant Health Agency and the farmer’s private vet, at the farmer’s request. Approximately 40 action plans have been agreed so far, with more being added each month. At the same time, some persistent breakdown herds are coming off restriction and are dropping off the list. However, at any one time there are between 50 and 60 persistent TB breakdowns open and these are located in the intermediate and high TB areas.

Through the action plan process, a series of measures are being deployed in order to help clear up infection. These include more sensitive TB testing, removing inconclusive reactors and requiring an additional TB test prior to allowing cattle to be moved after restrictions are lifted. Biosecurity requirement notices can also be issued in order to raise biosecurity standards on farm to the required level in order to mitigate against persistence of disease.

In certain persistent TB breakdowns where it is viewed badgers are contributing to the persistence of disease in the herd, the action plans will include measures to address this route of infection. Following sett surveys, these measures will include trapping and testing badgers on the TB breakdown farm and humanely euthanising badgers found to have TB. Test-negative badgers will be released following them being microchipped, and blood will be taken for further testing.

I’ve continued to monitor the badger vaccine situation carefully, as I believe badger vaccination does have a role to play in our TB eradication programme. At the time when the supply situation for humans resolves and I can be sure we can ethically source vaccines, I will consider how vaccines might be best utilised as part of our TB eradication programme.

I cannot stress enough the importance of clearing up these long-standing TB breakdowns, some of which have been under restrictions for 16 years or more. On average, the cost of testing in these herds and compensation of cattle slaughtered is £179,000 per herd. We will be closely monitoring the impacts of all these measures and aim to be in a position to review the boundaries of the TB areas once we have the full calendar year data set for 2018.

Work on modelling and target setting continues. This work is due to report at the end of the year, when we will be establishing a formal eradication target for Wales as a whole and interim milestones for each of the TB areas. Alongside these enhancements, the annual TB herd testing regime continues across Wales. We have almost eight years of annual testing data under our belt in Wales, and this sustained high level of active surveillance provides indisputable assurance of the true TB status of cattle herds in Wales, with 95 per cent of our cattle herds TB free.

In order to build on our knowledge of bovine TB in badgers and other susceptible wildlife, I am pleased to announce the continuation of the all-Wales ‘badger found dead’ survey, following a successful procurement exercise. The Wales Veterinary Science Centre has been awarded the contract for this work, the scope of which has been expanded to include collection and post-mortem examination of any other wildlife species in addition to badgers.

The TB statistics remain encouraging. The number of new TB incidents is down by 40 per cent since 2009, the lowest level in 12 years. Even though the trend appears to be in a plateau currently, periods of levelling off are to be expected as part of the overall long-term pattern. This is why we have enhanced our programme to further drive down the disease.

I would like to thank the farming industry, and veterinary profession and other stakeholders for their continued cooperation and engagement as our programme develops and progresses towards our ultimate goal of achieving a TB-free Wales.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement this afternoon? For the record, I’d like to, once again, state that my parents-in-law’s farm has been affected by bovine TB in recent years.

Of course, today’s statement confirms that work on modelling and target setting continues, and I welcome the fact that there will be more formal targets announced at the end of this year. However, perhaps the Cabinet Secretary can confirm that these targets are being developed in partnership with the agricultural industry to ensure that they are proportionate and robust.

The Cabinet Secretary has my broad support for the Welsh Government’s proposals to start removing this disease from the wildlife population. I’m pleased that the Welsh Government is now starting to take that difficult step forward by removing infected badgers as well as infected cattle. Of course, given the sensitivity of this issue, both for landowners and the Welsh Government, I understand, quite rightly, that no specific information will be released in the public domain. However, perhaps she could provide some more detail about how she intends to monitor these arrangements to ensure that this process happens as smoothly as possible. Perhaps the Cabinet Secretary will also tell us how she will be assessing the effectiveness of this policy so the targeted controls are being implemented appropriately.

Now, of course, a regionalised approach is now being implemented, and it’s absolutely essential that this approach does not indirectly result in more burden and red tape for farmers. It’s crucial that the regionalised approach doesn’t hinder any attempts to deliver the best possible trade deals for the Welsh red meat and dairy industries, and also ensures that domestic trade between Wales and England is not negatively impacted. Indeed, in responding to my questions on this before recess, the Cabinet Secretary said that her officials have certainly spoken to DEFRA and had discussions around that. Therefore, perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could tell us how those discussions are progressing, and what action she has agreed with the UK Government.

The Cabinet Secretary will be aware of the concerns raised recently by farmers in my own area that the new controls could have a negative effect for pedigree breeders in high TB areas. Therefore, perhaps the Cabinet Secretary could tell us how the Welsh Government will specifically support the pedigree industry, who are anxious that the regionalised approach could result in them finding it more difficult to trade in the future.

Of course, one of the Welsh Government’s longer-term goals, according to the Wales TB eradication programme delivery plan, is the development of an informed purchasing scheme. In the Cabinet Secretary’s statement before recess, she confirmed that a mandatory scheme was the only way forward, and that she had asked officials to look at a mandatory scheme. Now, given that today’s statement doesn’t make any reference to an informed purchasing scheme, could the Cabinet Secretary confirm that this is still on the Welsh Government’s agenda and, therefore, can she tell us exactly what work her officials have undertaken to develop a compulsory scheme?

The TB eradication delivery plan confirmed that the compensation cap would be reduced to £5,000. This has now been introduced in the last few days, of course, and I appreciate this only affects a small number of farms. In response to my questions on this subject during her previous statement, the Cabinet Secretary said that she would encourage people who feel they’ve got cattle more valuable to look at insurance. However, the Welsh Government’s own TB eradication programme delivery plan states that there are concerns that insurance would not be a viable option due to the cost of the premiums. Therefore, whilst I appreciate that this only affects a very small number of farmers, there are, naturally, concerns for the farmers affected by high disease incidence who may be unable to obtain insurance for animals valued at more than £5,000. So, perhaps the Cabinet Secretary can tell us how she will be supporting those farmers so that the impact of this proposal is as minimal as possible.

Another aspect of the TB eradication programme is the development of a standardised, online biosecurity package. It’s crucial that this package is developed with the industry to ensure that it’s flexible enough to take account of individual circumstances and the different risks and disease drivers in each TB area. I’m pleased that today’s statement notes the importance of on-farm biosecurity to militate against the prevalence of the disease. However, could the Cabinet Secretary therefore tell us a bit more about how she will be ensuring that any on-farm biosecurity package will be responsive to individual needs? And can she tell us a bit more about how the agricultural and veterinary industries will be involved in the development of any online biosecurity packages?

Therefore, in closing, Llywydd, can I thank the Cabinet Secretary, once again, for her statement this afternoon? And can I, once again, put on record my broad support for the Welsh Government’s proposals? I can’t stress how important it is that the Welsh Government works with the agricultural industry to eradicate bovine TB in order to protect the sustainability and competitiveness of the industry for the future, particularly in light of Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union. Diolch.

I thank Paul Davies for the comments, for welcoming the statement, and for his questions. You’re absolutely right, we have to work very closely with the industry, with the farming unions, with the vets, with the individual farmers who aren’t members of farming unions, and also with all stakeholders. I do want to assure Members that that absolutely is the way that we’ve approached this. You’ll be aware that there were several summer agricultural shows—I always took the opportunity to talk to people about our enhanced eradication programme, and as I said in my opening remarks, my officials have certainly done intensive engagement with our stakeholders and with the sector over the summer ahead of the 1 October start date.

In relation to your specific questions, you asked about targets, and I said that I’m hoping to be in a position, certainly by the end of this year, to come forward with a target, and certainly as this is being developed by officials, we are looking at whether interim targets would be beneficial. You ask about what agreed action I’ve taken with the DEFRA. Well, as I said before, I haven’t had specific discussions with DEFRA about this. This is obviously a matter for us, so I haven’t actually agreed any specific actions with DEFRA, but I know my officials do have discussions around the programmes. For instance, I’m aware that England and Scotland are now consulting—one of the things is around a reduction in compensation and having a compensation cap such as we’ve brought in here in Wales. So, those discussions are ongoing, but I haven’t got any agreed actions because, as I say, this is a matter for us.

You mentioned about informed purchasing. Absolutely, that is still the intention—to introduce a mandatory informed purchasing scheme. It’s really important, I think, that farmers display TB information at the point of sale, and you’ll be aware that we have given funding to livestock markets, for instance, but I’m still not happy that that information is always there. So, I think it’s really important that all our livestock markets upgrade their facilities. As I say, we have provided funding for that to be done, and more information does need to be provided to sellers. It’s really about empowering farmers so that they can make those informed buying decisions going forward. So, yes, that is absolutely still our intention.

You also asked about pedigree farmers in your own constituency and around their reservations, being in a high TB area. I absolutely understand the reservations that a number of farmers have about being included in a high TB area, and certainly when I came to the Pembroke show that was something that I discussed. But I’m really confident this approach will allow us to speed up progress, and that’s the message that I’ve given to the sector. I really want to reduce the number of breakdowns and the severity of each breakdown, as you yourself have said also.

I think your final question was around biosecurity, and you’ll remember that this enhanced eradication programme came about after we’d been out to consultation. As part of that consultation, I did task officials with developing a standardised, online biosecurity package, which really built on previous work that had been undertaken in this area. So, there’s a number of biosecurity tools available to farmers at the current time. What I want to do is really standardise the advice, because I think we don’t want—. You mentioned bureaucracy, and we really want to make it as simple as possible, and take out that complexity. So, what I really want to see is a single, comprehensive biosecurity package to enable farmers to fully assess their disease risks and then mitigate accordingly.

May I say at the outset that I welcome the statement that confirms the actions currently being taken, and in light of the previous statement by the Minister, which has also been supported in general terms by Plaid Cymru? Of course, at their core, these issues relate to public health on the one hand and animal welfare on the other, and Plaid Cymru is of the view that we need to treat animal welfare—the cattle suffering from TB as much as the welfare of badgers. And in addition to dealing with infected animals, whatever species that animal will be, we welcome the steps being taken and outlined in this statement. I also hope that it will actually do something to lift the shadow currently cast over the industry. Although the Cabinet Secretary has said that the number of herds suffering from bovine TB is reducing, certainly the impact in many parts of Wales is being felt very deeply indeed.

I’m not going to reiterate Paul Davies’s questions—he asked most of the questions that I wanted to ask—but I will just say that I also welcome your responses to the questions on informed purchasing, as it’s known, the internal market, and what happens between pedigree herds too.

One question that I think Paul Davies did refer to, and I wanted to raise, but you didn’t have an opportunity to respond to, and perhaps you could respond to my question, is that although we recognise that we wouldn’t want information to emerge on where action is being taken in terms of wildlife, how can we be assured not only that it’s being monitored and being done in the most beneficial way possible, or the most humane way possible, but that we should also understand whether this is working and whether it has assisted in reducing instances of bovine TB in those areas and on those specific farms, as your statement states, where it’s been chronic for a long period of time?

I will just move on to two or three new questions. One of them emerges from the fact that you’ve said clearly that one of the reasons for introducing a cap is to make savings. You mentioned savings of around £200,000 per annum, which does raise the question: what happens once we have left the European Union? We now know of those dates and we’re not sure what kind of trading will take place, but in this context we will no longer be part of the European Union system. So, can you confirm today that you will keep Government expenditure on this disease at its current level, at least until the end of this Assembly, so that this gives the right message to the industry that you want to work with them and that the cap, if you like, is a price worth paying because funding will still be spent in order to reduce and eradicate this disease?

The second question arising, in welcoming the fact that you have expanded the testing of animals found dead, there is talk of the introduction of a new species to the Welsh wildlife system. The otter has been mentioned [Translation should read: 'beaver'], and I know that there are some specific proposals to introduce the beaver to parts of mid Wales. I am informed that the beaver can carry this disease, so what assurances can you give us in this context that no new species introduced to our rural areas could spread this disease?

I do hope that farmers and the Government will work together to ensure that the new-look programme will be successful. I very much hope that we will see a reduction in the number of herds infected but also in the way that this disease is spread in the hotspots, as they’re known, in Wales. I just wanted to ask: when would you be willing to review whether the three areas that you have in Wales are doing the job that you expect of them, and when will you review this to see if this plan is working or not?

Diolch, Simon Thomas, for welcoming the statement and for your questions. You’re quite right, it is a matter of public health as well as animal welfare. I think we all share that aim of Wales being TB free. That’s why, because of that plateau—we knew that was coming—it was really important that we refreshed the TB programme.

In relation to your specific question, you’re quite right, I did forget to answer Paul Davies’s questions around monitoring. So, you’ll be aware that, in relation to the trapping of badgers, that is only on those chronic herd breakdowns. I mentioned there are between 50 and 60, so those actions plans are being drawn up at the current time. I have asked for those action plans to be monitored. I mentioned the vet, and obviously the Animal and Plant Health Agency. I would like to report probably annually as to how this is progressing. So, it’s going to take a year before, really, I’m able to report in a substantive way that would be beneficial.

In relation to the informed purchasing scheme you also mentioned, as did Paul Davies, as I say, we absolutely intend to introduce a mandatory informed purchasing scheme. And the reason we’re doing that is because it has made a significant contribution to TB eradication in both Australia and New Zealand and I was very fortunate to talk to somebody from New Zealand about this. You’re quite right, we won’t be reporting which farms are having the bespoke action plans because, obviously, there is a security question, but as I say, I will be reporting, certainly—my intention is annually.

In relation to the compensation cap, I am committed to paying a reasonable compensation sum for cattle slaughter because of TB, but it is getting more imperative that we do look at what funding we can save, because you’re quite right, we do not know where that funding is. So, certainly, my intention would be to continue to fund at the level we are, but you will appreciate that budgets are done on an annual basis and we’ll have to look at that. But it isn’t about saving money, it is about eradicating TB, and I am concerned that overvaluation does increase the cost to the taxpayer, and I really want to avoid that. And when you compare our average compensation payments, they are 60 per cent higher when you compare them to England, which I don’t think is acceptable.

You mentioned about otters and beavers: I, too, heard over the summer recess that they were looking to introduce beavers in Wales, but the last time I checked there hadn’t been any applications for licences, but, obviously, this is something that we will have to look at if that, obviously, happens. And I mentioned that the dead badger survey will now include other species, and I would encourage all Members to make sure that that phone number—which I haven’t got to hand; it’s in here somewhere—is available to everyone, and that if they do find a dead badger, they report it.

I too hope that this will bring forward significant improvement, particularly in those chronic heard breakdowns, which, as I say, some of them—or one of them, has been in breakdown since 2001. It’s completely unacceptable at so many different levels, and I am very pleased with the way the sector has worked with us to develop the refresh of the eradication programme.

Well, I can be even briefer than Simon Thomas, considering that there are fewer unanswered questions left by the time you get to me. But I welcome the statement, and I would also like to put on record my opinion that the Cabinet Secretary has been very constructive in the way in which she has developed policy in this area and the farming community is very appreciative of the openness that she has shown and her willingness to listen and to engage them in practical discussions about dealing with this terrible disease. It is as important to the farming community and, indeed, the country as a whole that this be dealt with as it was when we had BSE. Certainly, as for the future, and for the marketing potential of agricultural products in Wales, dealing with TB and eradicating it, so far as we can, is going to be vital in the post-Brexit world. I know the Cabinet Secretary shares my view on that.

To that end, although I’m a strong believer, as she knows, in proportionate regulation, the change in the regulations in relation to pre-movement testing in low TB areas is something that needs to be kept under review, and I’d like to know whether that will be done. I’d like to add my voice to what has already been said in relation to compensation for farmers for animals that are worth more than £5000, and I know that the Cabinet Secretary has just said that the compensation on average is 60 per cent more in England—I heard Llyr Gruffydd say a moment ago that that’s because we have 60 per cent better cattle. I don’t know whether that is actually true, but nevertheless, obviously, we don’t want to pay over the odds for cattle, but nevertheless, we have to recognise that farm incomes are under extreme pressure and this does impose a real cost upon people in the real world. So, I do hope that, again, she will keep that under review.

One of the big problems, of course, is the infection of animals in the wild, off farms. I do acknowledge the significant step that she has taken, which, in proper Sir Humphrey language, must have been regarded as courageous, to decide to have a limited cull where infected badgers can be found and to dispatch them humanely. That is a very significant step forward in principle, and I think she deserves our congratulations for that.

As regards badger vaccination, I wonder whether she will agree with me that this doesn’t really, I think, constitute a practical step for the eradication of this disease. We all remember that when vaccines were available, the cost per badger for those that were vaccinated was extortionate: getting on towards, I think, from memory, something like £1,000. So, it’s very expensive and the badger population is difficult to monitor, so I think it’s a bit of a blind alley to think that if the vaccine ever becomes available again in significant quantities it’s going to be the answer to this disease.

My last point is in relation to the role of the Animal and Plant Health Agency and the requirement, therefore, to have two vets on the farm to inspect animals. I know that this is a step forward in many ways, but this does impose an extra cost upon the farmer. His own vet is likely to know his own farm and his animals better than an APHA vet, so I wonder, therefore, whether, in order to assist, the Government might be able to pay for the cost of the APHA vet as well.

One more point I would like some assurance on is that I know that the Cabinet Secretary can’t give us exact timings, and increased cattle controls have been introduced this autumn, but can she confirm that the trapping and testing of badgers will also take place simultaneously with that this autumn, in line with the additional controls being placed on Welsh farmers? The farming industry has said it couldn’t accept further cattle controls without action being taken concurrently, and I hope she can assure me today that that’s likely to be the case.

Thank you, Neil Hamilton, for those questions. I suppose the short answer to a couple of those questions is that we will keep the whole programme under review—constant review. As I say, I have committed to reporting to the Assembly on the progress that we are making. You asked about a couple of points and whether we would be keeping specific things under review. The answer is that we’re keeping the whole programme under review.

You mentioned the pre-movement testing in the low TB area. I think it’s a very important and effective tool in keeping disease out of TB-free herds. I think that if we can declare that north-west Wales is TB free, it would give everybody a really big boost. We are within touching distance of doing that, so I think it’s really important that we protect that area in this way. I think keepers really need to take ownership of the disease situation, so that we can really protect that area’s favourable status.

In relation to compensation, you will have heard my earlier answers. As I say, it’s very pleasing to see now that England and Scotland are out to consultation on that too. I do urge farmers, if they do think they’ve got cattle that are worth more than £5,000, to look for insurance. I know it’s quite a new area of insurance, but it is out there.

In relation to trapping badgers, it’s not a cull, it’s not a limited cull. I think it would be good for the badger population if we take out—. If a badger’s got TB, why would you want to keep it there? I mentioned in my opening statement how that would be done—that they would be tested and they would be microchipped, and blood would also be tested again. So, I think it’s good for the badger population as well as cattle, obviously.

The vaccine does play a part, I think. I don’t think any one measure that we have would eradicate TB—I think it is about a whole suite of measures. I do think, as I say, that the vaccine has a role to play. If it becomes available in the way I set out in my opening statement, I will certainly look at it as part of the eradication programme.

So, the action plans, I mentioned there are between 50 and 60 chronic herd breakdowns at any one time, not always the same, obviously. I understand that about 45 of these action plans have now been drawn up over the summer since I made my statement in June, ahead of the 1 October start date. Obviously, this will then be part of those action plans as we go forward.

In relation to the private vet and the APHA vet working alongside the farmer, I haven’t had any criticism around the cost of it, but I too don’t want to put any more burdens on farmers, so I will certainly have a look at how that is funded.

I thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement and I am optimistic that these new enhanced measures will continue the significant progress that has been made towards eradicating bovine TB in Wales, which has already seen a 40 per cent drop in cases since 2009. I share your resolve to clear up the long-standing TB breakdowns, the cost to the public purse and the personal misery that they perpetuate.

But, Members know my views on culling wildlife: I believe that we should do all that we can to avoid it. So, I would urge the Government to continue to seek new science-led, innovative and humane ways to take out the disease. There is a big difference between Wales and the heedless cull in England. I know, Cabinet Secretary, that you don’t support an all-out cull and I welcome that approach, but I do wonder how frequently cages will be examined and how sure you can be that once a badger is caught, it would escape unnecessary death and suffering. You mentioned roadside kills being reported. I wonder if any of those have been assessed as being already dead before arriving at the roadside, and how many of them are actually TB free. I have lots of anecdotal evidence that suggest that that is a way of disposing of badgers that have been killed illegally long before they arrive at the kerbside. So, the only way that we can determine that is by actually looking more closely at those carcasses.

The other thing that I want to ask about are the slurry leaks from the mega dairy farms and the potential spread of bTB as a consequence of those. I ask, because it’s not mentioned here at all in this statement, whether before we license any more mega dairy farms, we could look very seriously within that planning application about the containment of slurry within the farm, rather than finding it in the river within a few days and also quite frequently.

I would also be interested to hear your views, Cabinet Secretary, on a new testing technique currently being used on a farm in Devon that could help identify and isolate infected cows more accurately and quickly, eliminating TB from the herd without having to interfere with the surrounding wildlife. We know that although badgers can catch TB from cattle, they don’t keep it alive for nearly as long. The Devon test appears to show that even where badgers around the farm had tested positively for TB, because the disease had been completely eradicated from the herd, it then doesn’t return. The Save Me Trust is assisting in the study and hopes that, with better testing, killing badgers will become an irrelevance, and so do I.

The other thing that has disturbed me, and I’m sure it will have disturbed other people listening to this debate today, is now the inclusion, not only of badgers, but of otters and beavers. I find that completely distressing and I’d like to see any evidence that anyone can present in that regard.

Thank you. Well, as I say, the last time I asked there had been no licences applied for to bring beavers into Wales, but obviously that is something that we will have to continue to look at if that should happen. You’re quite right, I have ruled out an England-style cull, and I personally don’t think there’s anything to suggest that the disease picture in England is improving with what they are doing. So, absolutely, we’ve ruled out a cull, and you’ll be aware of what we are doing just in those chronic herd breakdowns in relation to badgers. It will be done as quickly as possible. The badgers will be trapped and tested very quickly, and I do want to assure you that they will be treated humanely at all times.

In relation to the ‘badger found dead’ survey, it might be helpful if I gave you some figures. I’m very pleased that we are continuing it—as I say, we’ve had a procurement exercise—because I do think it is a very valuable source of information in fighting TB in cattle. You ask the question: are they assessed as to how they got to the roadside or how they’ve been killed? And the answer is ‘yes’, and I certainly haven’t been given any indication that the badgers that are found at the roadside have been put there illegally. So, I do want to reassure you about that. The provisional results we had from the all-Wales ‘badger found dead’ survey completed in 2016 indicated that, of the 681 badger carcasses tested, 50, so that’s 7.3 per cent, were positive for bovis. From 1 January this year up until 31 August this year, we had 44 carcasses tested; eight were positive and we’ve got 12 results pending. So, you can see that it’s really vital that we have that information and also on where they are—that helps with the low, the intermediate and the high TB areas, having that information. So, I’ve now found the phone number. So, I would, as I say, urge everybody to make sure that this phone number is available: it’s 01970 612374. Further information can be found and instructions on dealing with those carcasses, but I would urge everyone to phone the Wales Veterinary Science Centre if they do find a dead badger.

In relation to slurry leaks, we have seen some significant agricultural pollution this year, which I’ve made very clear is completely unacceptable. So this, obviously, is something that we are keeping under review. You’ll be aware that we recently had the nitrate vulnerable zones consultation, and I will be making a statement in relation to that by the end of this year.

You mentioned about the new testing technique in Devon. I have asked officials to have a look at this, but I don’t have any information—I haven’t received advice on it yet. But, certainly, anything that can help us in this battle will be looked at.

In the delivery programme, you say that further analysis will be undertaken of alternative approaches to compensation in Wales, and I do ask you to review the removal of the cap. We did hear clear evidence from the farming unions that this will have a poor effect on investment and then the quality of cattle. And it’s quite a severe cut from £15,000 to £5,000. You’re right that it doesn’t affect that many cases each year, but it is a significant thing, especially at the pedigree end. I think it would be reasonable for you to check that there is the availability on the market of reasonably priced insurance products, because if there isn’t, then we’ve got real problems here. So, I think that ought to be the basis of your review.

Secondly, recommendation 11 of the committee report said that you should preserve the current spending on TB eradication. You seem to be going very quickly into, ‘Well, you know, the European programme pays for a lot of it at the moment’, and, indeed, one of the reasons you said you’d cut the cap is because you need to save money because of the possible withdrawal of—well, as a result of the withdrawal of European moneys, that they will not be made good. But, you know, our committee emphatically said you or the Welsh Government should preserve the current spend, and I would like to hear that commitment from you.

I thank David Melding for his questions, and I did say that certainly my intention is to preserve it. The European funding actually isn’t a huge percentage of the funding that we use, but, certainly, you’re quite right that we need to look at preserving that spending, and that’s certainly my intention, and I hope I made that clear to Simon Thomas before. There is insurance available. I did say it’s quite a new market, but there certainly is insurance available. I mentioned I’m keeping everything in relation to the refreshed programme under review. However, I also mentioned that England and Scotland are now consulting on reducing the compensation and having a cap at about £5,000. So, I don’t think we would be changing that in the near future, but the whole programme will be kept under review.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.