Group 2. Due regard to United Nations Conventions (Amendments 26, 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2G, 2, 3A, 3B, 3C, 3D, 3E, 3F, 3, 25)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:03 pm on 21 November 2017.

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Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 5:03, 21 November 2017

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Can I assure Members that I've listened very carefully to what has been said in previous committee discussions on this subject, and indeed comments here today? There is no doubt that we all agree that the rights of children and disabled persons, as set out in the UN conventions, are fundamentally important. I would remind Members that the rights of children and young people, including those of disabled children and young people, are already incorporated into the legal duties in the Bill. Indeed, I would argue they are at the very core of this piece of legislation. Let me be also absolutely clear: nobody has suggested that any aspect of this Bill is incompatible with those conventions. If professionals and practitioners are complying with their duties under this Bill, then they will be complying with the principles and the intentions of the conventions. Now, I appreciate that there is a wish to ensure that the rights set out in the conventions are given specific prominence, and that's why the Government has tabled its amendments today. Amendment 25 in particular includes direct reference to this in the overview of the legislation—as I said, placing it front and centre at the beginning of the legislation.

However, I would, once again, say that I do not want to see teachers, support staff and others having to deal with more red tape—red tape that potentially takes them away from the crucial task they have of teaching and learning. We must avoid teachers, schools—[Interruption.] If you could bear with me. We must avoid teachers, schools and governing bodies having to evidence that they have taken the conventions into account in their individual interactions with all children and young people with additional learning needs. And, Darren, quite rightly, you and Llyr, you hold my feet to the fire continually on the issue of teacher workload and bureaucracy. You constantly challenge me in this Chamber, quite rightly, about what this Government is doing and what I am doing to reduce teacher workload and bureaucracy that takes away from teaching and learning. And whilst I absolutely understand that your intentions are honourable ones, I am truly fearful that the unintended consequences of what has been proposed here today will mean that individual practitioners on a daily basis will have to record somehow, and to demonstrate, should there be a legal challenge, that they have taken the UN convention into account while carrying out these duties. If they do that properly, that will be a bureaucratic burden. If they don't, we reduce the conventions to a simple tick-box exercise. Sorry, Darren.