Neil, thank you for that. Can I say that we always look around the world for best practice? But we can also look on our own doorsteps, because what we know is that there are variations in the approaches taken locally throughout Wales, as there are in England, by the way, as well. But it’s certainly some of that investment into the wraparound families provision. If you look at something like Families First, for example, it often gets missed because, if you say ‘Families First’, people think that’s a lovely cosy thing, but actually that is exactly the multi-agency approach to a family that says where are the areas of competence, of expertise, of knowledge that that family needs in order to provide a stable, resilient family environment for children.

The investment in things like Families First is helped by our analysis of things like the ACEs hub, which we've now invested in, which identifies those areas of adverse childhood experiences. We know that if you have two or three or four of them, it's more likely that that child is going to be in difficulty, if not actually taken into care. So, how do things like Families First help to avoid that situation? How does it wrap around that family? We've put £270 million in the Families First programme since 2012. It provides that supportive, enriching environment for children. It reduces the incidence of adverse childhood experiences. The approach taken here provides families with coherent packages of support, through a multi-agency approach that helps them as a family develop the skills for them, but also for their children as well. Those sort of approaches are definitely the way forward. We know it because it achieves the outcomes we've been talking about. But it takes long-term, sustained investment, working with families, to do it.

The point where I would agree and where we need to look at is how do we shift the curve, recognising that we have to make sure that we invest in the outcomes for children and young people who are leaving care and those people who are currently within care. We have to do that, but we also somehow have to shift the curve to make sure that we're investing more in those early years and prevention, because that is the thing that will give those families the support that avoids the necessity in future of more children being taken into care. But, sometimes, it is inevitable that the right thing for the child in a particular situation is that they're taken into care. In such a circumstance, we need to make sure that it's done with the most expert judgment, with the most compassion, and also that it's done sharing best practice, not just from abroad, but actually up the road in Wales as well.