Group 2. Abolition period (Amendments 6, 13, 2)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:27 pm on 28 November 2017.

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Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative 5:27, 28 November 2017

Thank you, Llywydd. I'm a little surprised by the Minister's response because, in fairness to the Cabinet Secretary, during the committee proceedings, he did concede that some form of sunset clause could be reasonably considered. He thought a far longer period than 10 years would be most appropriate, if the Government went down that road. But we now hear from the Minister that complete abolishment is the intention. I have to say that there was a different emphasis in the Government's evidence as we went through Stages 1 and 2—that the right to buy was not something that was opposed in principle and that even something like a sunset clause could get looked at. 

On your other argument about how somehow a sunset clause deters new build in terms of housing associations, or if we have a new age of council housing, one way around that would be, as I previously mentioned, ensuring that new builds have to be socially rented for a period of 15 or 20 years or whatever. There are other mechanisms, rather than completely abolishing a cherished right that has been exercised by so many people. If someone in 1980 said that getting on for 150,000 people in Wales would exercise a particular right, you would have thought, 'Wow, that is offering the citizenry something that is highly desirable.' So, I do urge the Chamber to think that some nuance could be brought into the Bill that is in front of us.

I do agree that the issue of supply is at the heart of this. Therefore, I think it's reasonable, after 10 years, to examine the issue again and to ask ourselves, 'The evidence that some people have found convincing: does that still have the strength that it has today?' And I don't think that is, in any way, weakening the Bill before us. After all, it would only take a resolution in this house or regulation. We're not talking about the Bill expiring and then you'd have to start the whole process again; it would just require an affirmative vote here.

Can I also say at this point that the Welsh Government has consistently mentioned the alternative of homeownership assistance schemes such as Help to Buy? But what I think you consistently fail to acknowledge is that most people on the lowest incomes would fail to qualify for such schemes as their income would be below the threshold, and many of these people have taken advantage of the Right to Buy and the discounts that it has given them.

During Stage 1, Steve Clarke stated:

'In our consultation of 2015, and our joint statement with TPAS Cymru, 100% of tenants agreed that Welsh Government needed to do more to increase social housing supply. In those consultations, 60% of tenants stated they did not want to see an end to RTB but supported restrictions on discounts and temporary suspension where there was a demonstrated need.'

So, I think this amendment is much more in tune with what the tenants, when they're consulted, are saying and the type of flexibility and sophistication they would expect in the policy and its architecture that we are constructing this afternoon. So, I really think that we could be innovative and do something that would be a first for this Assembly, and also acknowledge that there clearly is divided opinion.

I have to say, you know, in this Chamber there is a clear majority for this measure, probably, in its most robust form from your point of view, but when it comes to public opinion, I think you'll find that the arguments that we're making on this side—and we are supported, I acknowledge, by members of the UKIP group—have far greater resonance with the electorate out there, and I think that ought to be a concern during this period of what some people think is unresponsive or jaded democracy. So, I do hope Members will think carefully about how they're going to vote on this amendment.