Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:38 pm on 6 December 2017.
I thank the Member for taking an intervention, and I listened to what she was saying and I accept fully that when prisons are overcrowded we need to ensure that that's the case. But do you agree with me, therefore, that the £1.3 billion that the Ministry of Justice is putting aside for four new superprisons would actually be better spent on improving the justice system to ensure that the people who need to be in prison are in prison, not all those who are but don't need to be there, and therefore get the system right, because the system's failing? The system's in chaos.